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Delivery managers at WITCH (Wipro, Infy, TCS, CTS, HCL) outsourcing firms are paid based on how much they can earn from every account. So, this drives them do m

Delivery managers at WITCH (Wipro, Infy, TCS, CTS, HCL) outsourcing firms are paid based on how much they can earn from every account. So, this drives them do many things. One of the consequences is the perception of the said discrimination. Delivery managers prefer a cheaper resource to an expensive resource. They also practice this in India: that's why every team in India is filled with 80% freshers or those who get paid $5k per annum in India. In the states, they look for the cheapest resource to fill a position. Often times, they find spots that just require warm bodies to add billable hours. Guess, who would they go for? They will hire some H4 EAD who asks $65K per annum in NJ. These people are happy to get some job and experience. In old days, companies used to have lots of people coasting in their jobs. Now, WITCH companies have captured that profit in a two prong process: offshore to India and charge the client $30 per hour per person, then pay some desperate college grad in India $3 per hour. And capture that $27 per hour. This is similar to outsourcing the manufacturing, as the middle layers capture the profit, by paying peanuts in China and by getting rid of expensive employees in India. Edit: basically, these companies are making money off of outsourcing lots of bullshit jobs. They are NOT eliminating bs jobs. In fact, most of WITCH company onsite people are project managers pretending to be super smart workers.

nonamechicken 8y ago
I think it's unfair to blame it all on the Indians. There is another side to it, in the form of extremely demanding customers. The Indian companies resort to using cheap resources because the customer has x amount of budget, and they want things done within that budget. I knew one American product company (who is/was number one in the world in what they do) demanding that they will pay only x amount per hour for a person and make all these Indian as well as American consultancies compete with each other to find the lowest paid person. My Indian employer didn't even want to sent people there because they wouldn't make much profit while providing a decent salary.
- raincom 8y ago
  I am not blaming Indians, any more than Foxconn workers. Just showing how these companies operate and capture profits, while screwing everyone else in America/India/China.
  - rupertmurderdoc 8y ago
    blame the management ivy league MBA harvard,yale,oxford graduates who are the decision makers for the multinational companies based in USA...they only worry about the bottom line ...nope,let's blame the investors they force the management to profit maximise.....nope,let's blame the bankers who fund the investors,they move the money around.....nope,let's blame the money printer,that's more appropriate..
  - nonamechicken 8y ago
    >Just showing how these companies operate and capture profits, while screwing everyone else in America/India/China. That is 100% true. Also, you forgot another group - sales guys. I think they also play a big role in exploiting Indians by paying peanuts while charging the customer $25-30 per hour.
    - sumedh 8y ago
      > I think they also play a big role in exploiting Indians by paying peanuts Exploiting is pretty loaded word, we are not talking about sweatshops. These IT companies provide jobs to many people directly and indirectly. The good people who are paid peanuts then move to greener pastures.
    - GordonS 8y ago
      I've worked as a customer of WITCH companies for many years, and now work for one myself, and have many good friends in India. Indians are not being exploited - they are being paid market wages, and are part of a huge emerging middle-class in India.
      - empyrean 8y ago
        What you said would've been true in maybe 2002. However, the wages at these companies have been stagnant for the last two decades. They haven't even kept up with inflation. So no, $5k per annum isn't "market wages" for software developers in India. These are the lowest of the low. New grads in India often take these jobs as a last resort if they have absolutely no other option.
nonamechicken 8y ago
>They will hire some H4 EAD who asks $65K per annum in NJ. These people are happy to get some job and experiences. In my experience, these companies as well as the American consultancies were hiring Indian students who studied in US way way more than h4 eads. These students are desperate to get a visa, so they will settle for any job that will sponsor them. Over 100k Indian students alone come to US every year, so its no wonder there would be insane competition for the 80k visas.
raverbashing 8y ago
I'm always in awe at big corps to build big projects with lots of warm bodies that in the end would probably take 3x less people if ""only"" (of course it's a big thing) it was managed in a better way, if the customer knew how to handle its own expectations well and overall it was less about turning the wheels than actually delivering a project.
codedokode 8y ago
Does it mean that South Asian employees are more productive and have better performance (output to expenses ratio) than US or other employees? And that there is no discrimination, the company just hires the best people fitting for the job? Also, I wonder, if South Asia employees are so productive, why do they need an expensive US-based management reaping most of the profit? Why cannot they create their own company?
- raincom 8y ago
  South Asian employees (esp h1b, h4 ead, opt) bring in more profit for these companies. This has to do with wage arbitrage within the states. If they hire a citizen/gc, such a candidate won't put up with low wages, or with midnight conference calls with offshore everyday. WITCH companies are reaping profit. TCS market cap is $100B today.
- geodel 8y ago
  No rocket science here. They are productive in same sense mexican immigrants are productive in orange and tomato farming in States. Cheap and desperate to work even with demanding and exploitative employers because conditions back home are worse else they wouldn't have agreed to such arrangement.
KorematsuFred 8y ago
You are generalizing. I am aware of several unicorn startups have have moved all their engineering operations to India paying huge big bucks. Now, the WITCH companies are into the BS jobs, jobs that help American economy be far more efficient.
- raincom 8y ago
  I would be stupid to say that "every Indian IT guy is incompetent". Every one is six human beings is Indian. So, you will find smart people everywhere. Any comment can be criticized in two ways: (a) it is a generalization; (b) it is too specific or anecdata. Here, we are talking about HCL's preference for Indians. Even in WITCH companies, there are smart people. If there are x percent of smart people in the world, then WITCH companies do have x percent of smart people. The way WITCH companies send people onsite (USA, UK), depends NOT so much on how smart a candidate is, BUT on some kind of cronyism. At TCS, if someone wants to go onsite on H1, he needs to cozy up with all three levels above him, then this big boss recommends him to HR. Even if someone comes onsite, he has to suck up to onsite managers to process I-140. If he doesn't suck up to these parasite managers onsite, he will be sent back to India. Not many Americans know how these WITCH companies operate. That's what I am shedding light on. Here is something to look at: https://www.petition2congress.com/ctas/stop-eb1-c-abuse-fraudulent-filing https://www.petition2congress.com/ctas/stop-eb1-c-abuse-frau...
  - KorematsuFred 8y ago
    American immigration laws are to be blamed for this not the companies themselves. Companies will always align themselves to those incentive structures. American companies exploit foreign laws in similar ways. So I feel it cuts both ways. Since I am involved with lot of immigration advocacy I am familiar with the so called eb-1 abuse. It is not abuse at all. It is a sensible strategy where the companies follow the letter of the law. It is US Congress that is idiotic to put foreign managers and noble winners in the same group of immigrants. I do feel hr1044 is a perfect solution to this coupled by increasing h1b cap significantly.

nonamechicken 8y ago

I think it's unfair to blame it all on the Indians. There is another side to it, in the form of extremely demanding customers. The Indian companies resort to using cheap resources because the customer has x amount of budget, and they want things done within that budget. I knew one American product company (who is/was number one in the world in what they do) demanding that they will pay only x amount per hour for a person and make all these Indian as well as American consultancies compete with each other to find the lowest paid person. My Indian employer didn't even want to sent people there because they wouldn't make much profit while providing a decent salary.

raincom 8y ago
I am not blaming Indians, any more than Foxconn workers. Just showing how these companies operate and capture profits, while screwing everyone else in America/India/China.
- rupertmurderdoc 8y ago
  blame the management ivy league MBA harvard,yale,oxford graduates who are the decision makers for the multinational companies based in USA...they only worry about the bottom line ...nope,let's blame the investors they force the management to profit maximise.....nope,let's blame the bankers who fund the investors,they move the money around.....nope,let's blame the money printer,that's more appropriate..
- nonamechicken 8y ago
  >Just showing how these companies operate and capture profits, while screwing everyone else in America/India/China. That is 100% true. Also, you forgot another group - sales guys. I think they also play a big role in exploiting Indians by paying peanuts while charging the customer $25-30 per hour.
  - sumedh 8y ago
    > I think they also play a big role in exploiting Indians by paying peanuts Exploiting is pretty loaded word, we are not talking about sweatshops. These IT companies provide jobs to many people directly and indirectly. The good people who are paid peanuts then move to greener pastures.
  - GordonS 8y ago
    I've worked as a customer of WITCH companies for many years, and now work for one myself, and have many good friends in India. Indians are not being exploited - they are being paid market wages, and are part of a huge emerging middle-class in India.
    - empyrean 8y ago
      What you said would've been true in maybe 2002. However, the wages at these companies have been stagnant for the last two decades. They haven't even kept up with inflation. So no, $5k per annum isn't "market wages" for software developers in India. These are the lowest of the low. New grads in India often take these jobs as a last resort if they have absolutely no other option.

nonamechicken 8y ago

>They will hire some H4 EAD who asks $65K per annum in NJ. These people are happy to get some job and experiences. In my experience, these companies as well as the American consultancies were hiring Indian students who studied in US way way more than h4 eads. These students are desperate to get a visa, so they will settle for any job that will sponsor them. Over 100k Indian students alone come to US every year, so its no wonder there would be insane competition for the 80k visas.

raverbashing 8y ago

I'm always in awe at big corps to build big projects with lots of warm bodies that in the end would probably take 3x less people if ""only"" (of course it's a big thing) it was managed in a better way, if the customer knew how to handle its own expectations well and overall it was less about turning the wheels than actually delivering a project.

codedokode 8y ago

Does it mean that South Asian employees are more productive and have better performance (output to expenses ratio) than US or other employees? And that there is no discrimination, the company just hires the best people fitting for the job? Also, I wonder, if South Asia employees are so productive, why do they need an expensive US-based management reaping most of the profit? Why cannot they create their own company?

raincom 8y ago
South Asian employees (esp h1b, h4 ead, opt) bring in more profit for these companies. This has to do with wage arbitrage within the states. If they hire a citizen/gc, such a candidate won't put up with low wages, or with midnight conference calls with offshore everyday. WITCH companies are reaping profit. TCS market cap is $100B today.
geodel 8y ago
No rocket science here. They are productive in same sense mexican immigrants are productive in orange and tomato farming in States. Cheap and desperate to work even with demanding and exploitative employers because conditions back home are worse else they wouldn't have agreed to such arrangement.

KorematsuFred 8y ago

You are generalizing. I am aware of several unicorn startups have have moved all their engineering operations to India paying huge big bucks. Now, the WITCH companies are into the BS jobs, jobs that help American economy be far more efficient.

raincom 8y ago
I would be stupid to say that "every Indian IT guy is incompetent". Every one is six human beings is Indian. So, you will find smart people everywhere. Any comment can be criticized in two ways: (a) it is a generalization; (b) it is too specific or anecdata. Here, we are talking about HCL's preference for Indians. Even in WITCH companies, there are smart people. If there are x percent of smart people in the world, then WITCH companies do have x percent of smart people. The way WITCH companies send people onsite (USA, UK), depends NOT so much on how smart a candidate is, BUT on some kind of cronyism. At TCS, if someone wants to go onsite on H1, he needs to cozy up with all three levels above him, then this big boss recommends him to HR. Even if someone comes onsite, he has to suck up to onsite managers to process I-140. If he doesn't suck up to these parasite managers onsite, he will be sent back to India. Not many Americans know how these WITCH companies operate. That's what I am shedding light on. Here is something to look at: https://www.petition2congress.com/ctas/stop-eb1-c-abuse-fraudulent-filing https://www.petition2congress.com/ctas/stop-eb1-c-abuse-frau...
- KorematsuFred 8y ago
  American immigration laws are to be blamed for this not the companies themselves. Companies will always align themselves to those incentive structures. American companies exploit foreign laws in similar ways. So I feel it cuts both ways. Since I am involved with lot of immigration advocacy I am familiar with the so called eb-1 abuse. It is not abuse at all. It is a sensible strategy where the companies follow the letter of the law. It is US Congress that is idiotic to put foreign managers and noble winners in the same group of immigrants. I do feel hr1044 is a perfect solution to this coupled by increasing h1b cap significantly.