4 ms·

I think it’s interesting that it’s tragic when cute animals die in small numbers due to totally natural causes, and totally irrelevant when non-cute animals die

by zaroth 8y ago

I think it’s interesting that it’s tragic when cute animals die in small numbers due to totally natural causes, and totally irrelevant when non-cute animals die by the millions due to human infrastructure. To the north and to the south of this particular data point, mammal rescues are normal. Normal (El Nino) weather patterns seem to explain why these young animals may be having trouble finding food. And while plenty of spectres are thrown about like toxic algae and pollution from storm runoff, no data are actually provided, which IMO is beneath journalistic standards.

omeid2 8y ago
> Normal (El Nino) weather patterns seem to explain why these young animals may be having trouble finding food. And while plenty of spectres are thrown about like toxic algae and pollution from storm runoff, no data are actually provided, which IMO is beneath journalistic standards. What? That is literally what the article says: > Though the exact reason for the increase in the number of strandings this year is unknown, Higuchi said it could be tied to warmer ocean waters caused by an El Niño weather pattern or excess stormwater runoff from this winter’s rains. And they go on to provide other possible explanations: > Necropsy results have yet to come in, but Viezbicke thinks the dolphin beachings have something to do with this year’s rain, which has pounded the state in recent months with a series of *atmospheric river-fueled front. > It’s possible the storm runoff that washes waste into the ocean has caused a stronger bloom of poisonous algae, which produce a toxin responsible for neurological disorders, Higuchi said. Sickness caused by the algae blooms can cause seizures, which affected three of the dolphins found recently in Southern California. quoting Justin Viezbicke, stranding coordinator with National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration. Hardly unsubstantiated claims as you make it. Let's not be so quick to dismiss anything related to our poor behavior in relation to ocean toxicity and waste problem, it won't do us good on the long run!
- zaroth 8y ago
  > What? That is literally what the article says Yes, I know, that was my summary of TFA!
csmeder 8y ago
On a some what similar topic: the amount of killing and hunting (rabbits, moles, mice and other small mammals) that happens when we grow produce. Add to that the destruction of a previously thriving eco system of small mammals, insects and lizards that is caused by the vast mono crop method used by most conventional farmers. And you end up with questions about the ethics of a plant based diet (at least one that is based on our conventional methods of large scale farming). On the surface it would seem that a diet that includes meat from free range (non feed lot) cattle would result in less death (by numbers) and less destruction of natural habitat than a 100% plant based diet (even a small organic farm practices eco system destruction to plant its non mono crops and I assume practices animal trapping/hunting?). Which maybe is fine with some vegans but I think a large percentage don’t consider this. In particular the amount of poison and traps that are used to kill small mammals to produce each pound of carrots, broccoli or other plant life.
- solarengineer 8y ago
  There are non polluting ways of farming vegetables, and mono crop planting could be substituted with multi crop planting.
- cageface 8y ago
  Most of the grain grown in the USA is fed to livestock. If you are concerned about the impact of agriculture on the environment the single best thing you can do is eat lower on the food chain. The number of small animals killed to feed one person a carnivore diet is far far more than it takes to feed that person a plant based diet.
  - justtopost 8y ago
    Grass fed beef addresses both. You don't need to be so brash.
    - ip26 8y ago
      Grass fed is good and probably even healthier. But it is also considerably more expensive, and our ultimate capacity for production of grass fed is much lower than corn fed. So grass fed cannot really fully replace corn fed.
smallnamespace 8y ago
If you're in the Bay Area, algae is already likely affecting you: https://abc7news.com/health/toxic-algae-bloom-in-oaklands-lake-temescal-prompts-closure/2156561/ https://abc7news.com/health/toxic-algae-bloom-in-oaklands-la... http://claycord.com/2017/08/07/contra-costa-residents-experiencing-taste-and-odor-issues-with-their-water/ http://claycord.com/2017/08/07/contra-costa-residents-experi... https://coastalscience.noaa.gov/news/four-different-algal-toxins-found-san-francisco-bay-mussels/ https://coastalscience.noaa.gov/news/four-different-algal-to... https://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/article/toxic-algae-clearlake-oaks-lake-co-cyanobacteria-13095521.php https://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/article/toxic-algae-clea... These cyanobacteria levels are unusual--we don't have hundreds of years of records, but we certainly have never seen algae blooms happening regularly every year in so many bodies of water. This isn't limited to SF, e.g. Toledo has been having regular algae blooms that have shut down their municipal water for years now: https://www.bridgemi.com/michigan-environment-watch/lake-eries-algae-bloom-growing-again-after-paralyzing-toledo-water-system https://www.bridgemi.com/michigan-environment-watch/lake-eri...
pvaldes 8y ago
Some people see only the cuteness, but other see key species. Top predators are a very important part of the modulation of the ecosystem and recover much more slowly than fishes or algae. Is an indicator that something is going wrong. We are also very close to then in the trofic chain so, when there is something in the fish that is killing big mammals, we have a problem also.

by zaroth 8y ago

omeid2 8y ago

> Normal (El Nino) weather patterns seem to explain why these young animals may be having trouble finding food. And while plenty of spectres are thrown about like toxic algae and pollution from storm runoff, no data are actually provided, which IMO is beneath journalistic standards. What? That is literally what the article says: > Though the exact reason for the increase in the number of strandings this year is unknown, Higuchi said it could be tied to warmer ocean waters caused by an El Niño weather pattern or excess stormwater runoff from this winter’s rains. And they go on to provide other possible explanations: > Necropsy results have yet to come in, but Viezbicke thinks the dolphin beachings have something to do with this year’s rain, which has pounded the state in recent months with a series of *atmospheric river-fueled front. > It’s possible the storm runoff that washes waste into the ocean has caused a stronger bloom of poisonous algae, which produce a toxin responsible for neurological disorders, Higuchi said. Sickness caused by the algae blooms can cause seizures, which affected three of the dolphins found recently in Southern California. quoting Justin Viezbicke, stranding coordinator with National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration. Hardly unsubstantiated claims as you make it. Let's not be so quick to dismiss anything related to our poor behavior in relation to ocean toxicity and waste problem, it won't do us good on the long run!

zaroth 8y ago
> What? That is literally what the article says Yes, I know, that was my summary of TFA!

csmeder 8y ago

On a some what similar topic: the amount of killing and hunting (rabbits, moles, mice and other small mammals) that happens when we grow produce. Add to that the destruction of a previously thriving eco system of small mammals, insects and lizards that is caused by the vast mono crop method used by most conventional farmers. And you end up with questions about the ethics of a plant based diet (at least one that is based on our conventional methods of large scale farming). On the surface it would seem that a diet that includes meat from free range (non feed lot) cattle would result in less death (by numbers) and less destruction of natural habitat than a 100% plant based diet (even a small organic farm practices eco system destruction to plant its non mono crops and I assume practices animal trapping/hunting?). Which maybe is fine with some vegans but I think a large percentage don’t consider this. In particular the amount of poison and traps that are used to kill small mammals to produce each pound of carrots, broccoli or other plant life.

solarengineer 8y ago
There are non polluting ways of farming vegetables, and mono crop planting could be substituted with multi crop planting.
cageface 8y ago
Most of the grain grown in the USA is fed to livestock. If you are concerned about the impact of agriculture on the environment the single best thing you can do is eat lower on the food chain. The number of small animals killed to feed one person a carnivore diet is far far more than it takes to feed that person a plant based diet.
- justtopost 8y ago
  Grass fed beef addresses both. You don't need to be so brash.
  - ip26 8y ago
    Grass fed is good and probably even healthier. But it is also considerably more expensive, and our ultimate capacity for production of grass fed is much lower than corn fed. So grass fed cannot really fully replace corn fed.

smallnamespace 8y ago

If you're in the Bay Area, algae is already likely affecting you: https://abc7news.com/health/toxic-algae-bloom-in-oaklands-lake-temescal-prompts-closure/2156561/ https://abc7news.com/health/toxic-algae-bloom-in-oaklands-la... http://claycord.com/2017/08/07/contra-costa-residents-experiencing-taste-and-odor-issues-with-their-water/ http://claycord.com/2017/08/07/contra-costa-residents-experi... https://coastalscience.noaa.gov/news/four-different-algal-toxins-found-san-francisco-bay-mussels/ https://coastalscience.noaa.gov/news/four-different-algal-to... https://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/article/toxic-algae-clearlake-oaks-lake-co-cyanobacteria-13095521.php https://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/article/toxic-algae-clea... These cyanobacteria levels are unusual--we don't have hundreds of years of records, but we certainly have never seen algae blooms happening regularly every year in so many bodies of water. This isn't limited to SF, e.g. Toledo has been having regular algae blooms that have shut down their municipal water for years now: https://www.bridgemi.com/michigan-environment-watch/lake-eries-algae-bloom-growing-again-after-paralyzing-toledo-water-system https://www.bridgemi.com/michigan-environment-watch/lake-eri...

pvaldes 8y ago

Some people see only the cuteness, but other see key species. Top predators are a very important part of the modulation of the ecosystem and recover much more slowly than fishes or algae. Is an indicator that something is going wrong. We are also very close to then in the trofic chain so, when there is something in the fish that is killing big mammals, we have a problem also.