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What do you call it when a Tesla drives me 90% of the way to work where I don't do anything but observe? It's not full self driving but it definitely is drivin

by leesec 8y ago

What do you call it when a Tesla drives me 90% of the way to work where I don't do anything but observe? It's not full self driving but it definitely is driving it self and providing value.

bombas 8y ago
^Exactly. I think Tesla's marketing is shit around this. Elon needs to shut the hell up on twitter as well. Stop coming at me with Waymo is 10 years ahead of Tesla... Ok great, are they shipping & delivering any value to paying customers? Waiting....... In 5 years time, do you really think Waymo will have paying customers and have gained regulatory approval? Hell no... Tesla at least realizes they can't get passed the regulatory hurdle. Keep driver at the wheel, provide a value, automate and refine.
- SEJeff 8y ago
  Very much this. I see it as a waterfall vs agile approach when you use software development methodologies as a comparison. Tesla put out a minimum viable product, and is quickly iterating on it. It isn't the ivory tower dogmatic example of perfection, but it is really good, and is tons of fun. Waymo on the other hand, is trying to just skip putting their products seriously in the hands of users and are doing limited trials in limited mostly perfect driving conditions (like Phoenix, AZ). The best thing is that as much as people want to argue on the internet about "which is better", it is somewhat inevitable they'll both succeed in their own way. Waymo will eventually crack the nut for Level 5 autonomous driving with Lidar just like Tesla will crack the nut for their full self driving (defined as driving from the east to west coast without any involuntary disengagements) with machine vision. I actually (potentially incorrectly) suspect Tesla will win this war first as they simply have a multiple of any competition when it comes to amount of driving data. How many more hundreds of millions of miles has Tesla autopilot logged compared to Waymo? Reminder: Tesla is building ~5,000-6,000 cars per week and tends to sell them pretty well. Their data moat only continues to widen. Once they figure out the right models for really pulling it off, they'll make HUGE leaps with the data they have. Some nights, my Model 3 will upload 10G of data up to Tesla. Hopefully, it is from Shadow Pilot to train the fleet. TL;DNR: There is nothing stopping both Tesla AND Waymo from solving full self driving using competing technology and different approaches. It is an exciting time to be alive!~
mikestew 8y ago
It's not full self driving I call the same thing you call it, apparently.
close04 8y ago
What kind of traffic and road conditions does that trip involve and how much are you an observer vs. you hanging on to the wheel and paying attention to everything as if you were driving yourself (staying engaged) as you are required by the law and by common sense? And if you don't mind me asking, how would you quantify in real money the value added by the system?
- leesec 8y ago
  The 90% I am talking about is a 12~ mile stretch of poorly maintained highway near Detroit usually in stop and go traffic and yes I am paying attention. I wouldn't quantify the value in real money. I would say the main benefit provides is that I have much less decision fatigue and am less stressed after my commute. I also don't care how fast I really get there anymore since I just optimize for less stress, and my trip is enjoyable. The other main value I commonly see overlooked is safety from distracted people. If we can assume people are going to keep texting and driving ( they are ), would you want them to do it while actually driving or with this system engaged?
  - kuzehanka 8y ago
    > and yes I am paying attention ...Then what is the point of that system? Tesla's 'self driving' is incredibly dangerous because it puts the driver in a set of conditions that make it very difficult to maintain attention on the road. And yet the driver must be able to take over from the 'self driving' system with subsecond warning if things go awry. That's not value adding, that's a huge risk. I would not use that system even if someone offered to install it for free in my car. Tesla's autopilot is a marketing twist on lane keeping adaptive cruise control - a technology available in almost every car at a similar price point. It is not a step towards actual autonomy.
    - 0815test 8y ago
      What's incredibly dangerous is thinking of this sort of system as "self-driving". But a car that can make most of the low-level driving decisions for the user, such as attempting to steer itself to stay centered in the lane, is going to make for a safer driving experience. It's just incredibly idiotic to market this sort of advanced driver assist as "self-driving" or "the car driving itself", and as something that allows the driver to lose focus; much of the controversy about Tesla is due to them having done exactly this in the past, and in some cases still doing it.

by leesec 8y ago

What do you call it when a Tesla drives me 90% of the way to work where I don't do anything but observe? It's not full self driving but it definitely is driving it self and providing value.

bombas 8y ago

^Exactly. I think Tesla's marketing is shit around this. Elon needs to shut the hell up on twitter as well. Stop coming at me with Waymo is 10 years ahead of Tesla... Ok great, are they shipping & delivering any value to paying customers? Waiting....... In 5 years time, do you really think Waymo will have paying customers and have gained regulatory approval? Hell no... Tesla at least realizes they can't get passed the regulatory hurdle. Keep driver at the wheel, provide a value, automate and refine.

SEJeff 8y ago
Very much this. I see it as a waterfall vs agile approach when you use software development methodologies as a comparison. Tesla put out a minimum viable product, and is quickly iterating on it. It isn't the ivory tower dogmatic example of perfection, but it is really good, and is tons of fun. Waymo on the other hand, is trying to just skip putting their products seriously in the hands of users and are doing limited trials in limited mostly perfect driving conditions (like Phoenix, AZ). The best thing is that as much as people want to argue on the internet about "which is better", it is somewhat inevitable they'll both succeed in their own way. Waymo will eventually crack the nut for Level 5 autonomous driving with Lidar just like Tesla will crack the nut for their full self driving (defined as driving from the east to west coast without any involuntary disengagements) with machine vision. I actually (potentially incorrectly) suspect Tesla will win this war first as they simply have a multiple of any competition when it comes to amount of driving data. How many more hundreds of millions of miles has Tesla autopilot logged compared to Waymo? Reminder: Tesla is building ~5,000-6,000 cars per week and tends to sell them pretty well. Their data moat only continues to widen. Once they figure out the right models for really pulling it off, they'll make HUGE leaps with the data they have. Some nights, my Model 3 will upload 10G of data up to Tesla. Hopefully, it is from Shadow Pilot to train the fleet. TL;DNR: There is nothing stopping both Tesla AND Waymo from solving full self driving using competing technology and different approaches. It is an exciting time to be alive!~

mikestew 8y ago

It's not full self driving I call the same thing you call it, apparently.

close04 8y ago

What kind of traffic and road conditions does that trip involve and how much are you an observer vs. you hanging on to the wheel and paying attention to everything as if you were driving yourself (staying engaged) as you are required by the law and by common sense? And if you don't mind me asking, how would you quantify in real money the value added by the system?

leesec 8y ago
The 90% I am talking about is a 12~ mile stretch of poorly maintained highway near Detroit usually in stop and go traffic and yes I am paying attention. I wouldn't quantify the value in real money. I would say the main benefit provides is that I have much less decision fatigue and am less stressed after my commute. I also don't care how fast I really get there anymore since I just optimize for less stress, and my trip is enjoyable. The other main value I commonly see overlooked is safety from distracted people. If we can assume people are going to keep texting and driving ( they are ), would you want them to do it while actually driving or with this system engaged?
- kuzehanka 8y ago
  > and yes I am paying attention ...Then what is the point of that system? Tesla's 'self driving' is incredibly dangerous because it puts the driver in a set of conditions that make it very difficult to maintain attention on the road. And yet the driver must be able to take over from the 'self driving' system with subsecond warning if things go awry. That's not value adding, that's a huge risk. I would not use that system even if someone offered to install it for free in my car. Tesla's autopilot is a marketing twist on lane keeping adaptive cruise control - a technology available in almost every car at a similar price point. It is not a step towards actual autonomy.
  - 0815test 8y ago
    What's incredibly dangerous is thinking of this sort of system as "self-driving". But a car that can make most of the low-level driving decisions for the user, such as attempting to steer itself to stay centered in the lane, is going to make for a safer driving experience. It's just incredibly idiotic to market this sort of advanced driver assist as "self-driving" or "the car driving itself", and as something that allows the driver to lose focus; much of the controversy about Tesla is due to them having done exactly this in the past, and in some cases still doing it.