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The vision problems are real. But the ability to handle ice/snow-induced wheel spin and slew seems like exactly the kind of problem that can be handled with sen

The vision problems are real. But the ability to handle ice/snow-induced wheel spin and slew seems like exactly the kind of problem that can be handled with sensitive electronic traction control, perhaps augmented with accelerometers. That specific problem doesn't seem intrinsically more complicated than, say, keeping a drone level on a breezy day -- which is something machines already do much more reliably than humans can. (New England driver here, so I do have some personal experience.)

rootusrootus 8y ago
Traction/stability control can only help with the situation you are already in. Being able to see the condition of the road -- the sparkle of ice forming, for example, or a sheen that suggests black ice, etc -- allows you to act instead of just react.
- matthewdgreen 8y ago
  While vision is a hard problem in general, the specific challenge of "ice detection" seems like exactly the kind of problem that computers can be programmed to do better (and more tirelessly) than humans, particularly with specialized detectors and LIDAR. Better sensors, better reaction time, zero distractions. (I don't have any expertise here, just intuition.)
  - rootusrootus 8y ago
    With the right instruments, I don't disagree. But in the context of cameras, I think it will be quite some time before that happens. Watching demos of state-of-the-art computer vision object detection today, I think it may be decades before we have cameras and computers good enough to do the kind of on-the-fly visual analysis that humans do naturally.
    - erikpukinskis 8y ago
      > in the context of cameras, I think it will be quite some time before that happens. Why? The car can easily detect slipping. It can upload camera data every time any Tesla ever lost traction. You think machine learning won't be able to correlate those signals? Certainly some problems are way easier for us, but that problem seems way easier for the Tesla fleet than for a human.

rootusrootus 8y ago

Traction/stability control can only help with the situation you are already in. Being able to see the condition of the road -- the sparkle of ice forming, for example, or a sheen that suggests black ice, etc -- allows you to act instead of just react.

matthewdgreen 8y ago
While vision is a hard problem in general, the specific challenge of "ice detection" seems like exactly the kind of problem that computers can be programmed to do better (and more tirelessly) than humans, particularly with specialized detectors and LIDAR. Better sensors, better reaction time, zero distractions. (I don't have any expertise here, just intuition.)
- rootusrootus 8y ago
  With the right instruments, I don't disagree. But in the context of cameras, I think it will be quite some time before that happens. Watching demos of state-of-the-art computer vision object detection today, I think it may be decades before we have cameras and computers good enough to do the kind of on-the-fly visual analysis that humans do naturally.
  - erikpukinskis 8y ago
    > in the context of cameras, I think it will be quite some time before that happens. Why? The car can easily detect slipping. It can upload camera data every time any Tesla ever lost traction. You think machine learning won't be able to correlate those signals? Certainly some problems are way easier for us, but that problem seems way easier for the Tesla fleet than for a human.