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I'm in my early 30s and very aware of this, to the point where if I could go back I'd pick a different career. My strategy is: live in the bay area so I can ge

I'm in my early 30s and very aware of this, to the point where if I could go back I'd pick a different career. My strategy is: live in the bay area so I can get paid like crazy, live a very frugal life much below my means, invest diligently, and hopefully have enough money to retire in my late 30s (in a much cheaper area, of course), so that when I'll be told that I'm too old, I'll raise my middle finger and leave the scene with the few million dollars I saved.

Moru 8y ago
Old people don't get useless, they have much needed experience that have to be harvested. Just because you use the latest fad does not mean you don't dig the same pit or just a slightly different pit. The young that realise this will stay ahead.
- deanmoriarty 8y ago
  For sure, but in this case I apply the investing's theory "the market can stay irrational longer than you can stay solvent", to something like: "the software engineering labor market can stay irrational towards older people longer than the 2 decades past 40 where I could stay effectively employable".
foobiekr 8y ago
Hi. I’m you from ten years in the future. Do not be afraid. I wanted to pop back in time and say thanks. Yeah you didn’t retire in your late thirties like you thought you would mostly because it’s harder to make FI cash than you thought. The crash of 2020 took a few years to get passed but hey 45 is the new late thirties as they say now. The reason I’m thanking you is you went ahead and struggled and saved anyway while things got tough and now you are free. Just FYI, I texted my QUIT to the HR bot in the Philippines just before I came back to see you. Btw quitting is harder than you think. Just to let you know, I don’t blame you. Not quitting at 40 when you could eke bye because they offered you 2x what you’d ever made to stay; yeah the place was thalidomide for your soul but then your wife (I’m not telling) got pretty sick and that cushion was worth it. Also: take care of your health and sleep more. An extra ten years of long hours at the terminal has left me not as healthy as I’d like.
- deanmoriarty 8y ago
  Haha thanks for this, I had a good time reading it. To be fair, I don't plan to retire at 39 or 40, as long as someone hires me with reasonable compensation (2x would be a dream!). I'm purely trying to protect myself against a foobar scenario where indeed, I become obsolete from the point of view of most employers, due to "old" age.
  - rabidrat 8y ago
    They don't pay you 2x to work at a dream job. It's 2x because it's "thalidomide for your soul". Be careful.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
pault 8y ago
I'm 40 and making the most money I've ever made in my career, fighting off hiring managers begging me to interview, and doing the most exciting work of my career. Also, you should leave the bay area now, not later. Your crazy money is getting eaten away by living expenses and you could have higher discretionary income in a smaller tech hub, and you could buy a house now and build equity instead of renting in the bay area.
- deanmoriarty 8y ago
  > you should leave the bay area now, not later Curious, why? I am having no problem being hireable right now at all (literally just joined a FAANG recently). As far as I know, it would be impossible to get the same pay I'm getting now anywhere else. Even after considering the high cost of living, the spread between income and cost of living is very high, and allows me to stash away a significant amount of savings every year, to pay for my future freedom. I really doubt I'd be able to save that much if I were working anywhere else. What else would you suggest?
  - magduf 8y ago
    Basically, the people who recommend moving someplace cheap are people who value stability over cash savings, and want to have a big house for a family. If that doesn't fit you, then it doesn't make sense for you. If you're single and live cheap, living in the high-CoL makes much more sense.
    - pault 8y ago
      If you are planning on staying in the bay area for 10 years to save money, why not move some place with a lower COL and buy a house that might appreciate significantly in those ten years? You can make good money in Austin.
      - magduf 8y ago
        There's no guarantee housing will appreciate, in fact it's a pretty good bet that it won't. Housing is already unaffordable in many places relative to local wages, so it looks like another bubble that may burst. Also, Austin, while not as bad as other parts of Texas, is still in Texas.
cr0sh 8y ago
I'm 45, soon to turn 46. If I could pop back in time, it would be to (somehow, because I didn't back in 1992) recognize that where things were at was the Bay Area, and moved there instead of staying in Phoenix. But here is where I am, and while I make a decent salary, I certainly am not retiring any time soon. The whole age thing is standing in sharp relief in my mind currently, because things are slightly "up in the air" at my current employer; I want to stay employed here, and I'm sure my employer wants to keep me, but recent events may potentially cause the relationship to have to be dissolved if the projects and numbers don't line up. I can understand that from a business perspective - fair's fair. But the prospect of interviewing yet again, 3 years after getting this position, is not something I look forward to. I have new skills I can bring with me that I didn't have before, so that's a plus, but I worry that the age thing may be a barrier. I'll probably have to lower my salary ask just to have a chance, but I won't do that unless I don't get any traction after a few months of looking - should I have to do so. Even with that, though, I tend to wonder if the question in the minds of those hiring will be something akin to "Why isn't he a team lead or a manager?"; which is something I don't have, and have never been offered - possibly because I've never been able to stay at a company long enough to get to that level - either they go out of business or they get sold 2-3 years after I join, or the company is just too small to have any kind of way to advance you into such a position (I've found that I fit best in companies of under 50 employees, and the fewer the better). Maybe if there's another time around coming for me, I should look into startups, though that seems like a bust from the get-go (ie - find a startup, in Phoenix, who needs a 45+ year old software engineer - that's probably a very small pool, if it exists at all). It is what it is, I guess. I am fortunate in that I am debt free, at least.
- bproven 8y ago
  Don't feel bad - I am in this situation as well. I believe your assessment is true in regards to the stereotype / first impression we make to hiring managers etc. If I could go back in time I would have the done the bay area thing when I was young too. But, life is a bit of give and take - there are some good things that happened in my life not taking that course (even if they didn't all work out as planned). So you kinda have to appreciate those parts of life and accept the fact that you are maybe not in the financial situation you wish you were in. The only guarantee we have in life is this moment :)

Moru 8y ago

Old people don't get useless, they have much needed experience that have to be harvested. Just because you use the latest fad does not mean you don't dig the same pit or just a slightly different pit. The young that realise this will stay ahead.

deanmoriarty 8y ago
For sure, but in this case I apply the investing's theory "the market can stay irrational longer than you can stay solvent", to something like: "the software engineering labor market can stay irrational towards older people longer than the 2 decades past 40 where I could stay effectively employable".

foobiekr 8y ago

Hi. I’m you from ten years in the future. Do not be afraid. I wanted to pop back in time and say thanks. Yeah you didn’t retire in your late thirties like you thought you would mostly because it’s harder to make FI cash than you thought. The crash of 2020 took a few years to get passed but hey 45 is the new late thirties as they say now. The reason I’m thanking you is you went ahead and struggled and saved anyway while things got tough and now you are free. Just FYI, I texted my QUIT to the HR bot in the Philippines just before I came back to see you. Btw quitting is harder than you think. Just to let you know, I don’t blame you. Not quitting at 40 when you could eke bye because they offered you 2x what you’d ever made to stay; yeah the place was thalidomide for your soul but then your wife (I’m not telling) got pretty sick and that cushion was worth it. Also: take care of your health and sleep more. An extra ten years of long hours at the terminal has left me not as healthy as I’d like.

deanmoriarty 8y ago
Haha thanks for this, I had a good time reading it. To be fair, I don't plan to retire at 39 or 40, as long as someone hires me with reasonable compensation (2x would be a dream!). I'm purely trying to protect myself against a foobar scenario where indeed, I become obsolete from the point of view of most employers, due to "old" age.
- rabidrat 8y ago
  They don't pay you 2x to work at a dream job. It's 2x because it's "thalidomide for your soul". Be careful.

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

pault 8y ago

I'm 40 and making the most money I've ever made in my career, fighting off hiring managers begging me to interview, and doing the most exciting work of my career. Also, you should leave the bay area now, not later. Your crazy money is getting eaten away by living expenses and you could have higher discretionary income in a smaller tech hub, and you could buy a house now and build equity instead of renting in the bay area.

deanmoriarty 8y ago
> you should leave the bay area now, not later Curious, why? I am having no problem being hireable right now at all (literally just joined a FAANG recently). As far as I know, it would be impossible to get the same pay I'm getting now anywhere else. Even after considering the high cost of living, the spread between income and cost of living is very high, and allows me to stash away a significant amount of savings every year, to pay for my future freedom. I really doubt I'd be able to save that much if I were working anywhere else. What else would you suggest?
- magduf 8y ago
  Basically, the people who recommend moving someplace cheap are people who value stability over cash savings, and want to have a big house for a family. If that doesn't fit you, then it doesn't make sense for you. If you're single and live cheap, living in the high-CoL makes much more sense.
  - pault 8y ago
    If you are planning on staying in the bay area for 10 years to save money, why not move some place with a lower COL and buy a house that might appreciate significantly in those ten years? You can make good money in Austin.
    - magduf 8y ago
      There's no guarantee housing will appreciate, in fact it's a pretty good bet that it won't. Housing is already unaffordable in many places relative to local wages, so it looks like another bubble that may burst. Also, Austin, while not as bad as other parts of Texas, is still in Texas.

cr0sh 8y ago

I'm 45, soon to turn 46. If I could pop back in time, it would be to (somehow, because I didn't back in 1992) recognize that where things were at was the Bay Area, and moved there instead of staying in Phoenix. But here is where I am, and while I make a decent salary, I certainly am not retiring any time soon. The whole age thing is standing in sharp relief in my mind currently, because things are slightly "up in the air" at my current employer; I want to stay employed here, and I'm sure my employer wants to keep me, but recent events may potentially cause the relationship to have to be dissolved if the projects and numbers don't line up. I can understand that from a business perspective - fair's fair. But the prospect of interviewing yet again, 3 years after getting this position, is not something I look forward to. I have new skills I can bring with me that I didn't have before, so that's a plus, but I worry that the age thing may be a barrier. I'll probably have to lower my salary ask just to have a chance, but I won't do that unless I don't get any traction after a few months of looking - should I have to do so. Even with that, though, I tend to wonder if the question in the minds of those hiring will be something akin to "Why isn't he a team lead or a manager?"; which is something I don't have, and have never been offered - possibly because I've never been able to stay at a company long enough to get to that level - either they go out of business or they get sold 2-3 years after I join, or the company is just too small to have any kind of way to advance you into such a position (I've found that I fit best in companies of under 50 employees, and the fewer the better). Maybe if there's another time around coming for me, I should look into startups, though that seems like a bust from the get-go (ie - find a startup, in Phoenix, who needs a 45+ year old software engineer - that's probably a very small pool, if it exists at all). It is what it is, I guess. I am fortunate in that I am debt free, at least.

bproven 8y ago
Don't feel bad - I am in this situation as well. I believe your assessment is true in regards to the stereotype / first impression we make to hiring managers etc. If I could go back in time I would have the done the bay area thing when I was young too. But, life is a bit of give and take - there are some good things that happened in my life not taking that course (even if they didn't all work out as planned). So you kinda have to appreciate those parts of life and accept the fact that you are maybe not in the financial situation you wish you were in. The only guarantee we have in life is this moment :)