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Look, this just doesn't disagree with what a "fair price" is. If "a man must live by his work" but the market doesn't afford it to him, then indeed "the race of

Look, this just doesn't disagree with what a "fair price" is. If "a man must live by his work" but the market doesn't afford it to him, then indeed "the race of such workmen could not last beyond the first generation". That means this kind of worker goes extinct, as many professions have in the past. I'm well aware that Smith on occasion argues for protectionism to "smooth out" that extinction process. That's welfare. It has no bearing on fair prices in free trade.

dredmorbius 8y ago
But all too often the resources to pay a living wage exist but the market has been manipulated such that the labourer won't be able to claim that. Which is a great deal of what Smith discusses. And no, it's not welfare. It's balancing political power. Because, "Wealth, as Mr Hobbes says, is power." (Yeah, Smith again.)
- zeroname 8y ago
  > But all too often the resources to pay a living wage exist but the market has been manipulated such that the labourer won't be able to claim that. These are orthogonal. A fair market price simply isn't equal to the price that is required to sustain someone's living. A fair market price also is not equal to the price that could be paid (i.e. the "resources available"). The laborer whose price is raised to some arbitrary limit that is above the market rate will find demand for their labor disappear in equal measure.
  - dredmorbius 8y ago
    "A fair market" ... does not exist. And the market, and economy, should serve the people. Not the people the market. "POLITICAL œconomy, considered as a branch of the science of a statesman or legislator, proposes two distinct objects: first, to provide a plentiful revenue or subsistence for the people, or more properly to enable them to provide such a revenue or subsistence for themselves; and secondly, to supply the state or commonwealth with a revenue sufficient for the public services. It proposes to enrich both the people and the sovereign." Again: Smith. https://oll.libertyfund.org/titles/smith-an-inquiry-into-the-nature-and-causes-of-the-wealth-of-nations-cannan-ed-vol-1 https://oll.libertyfund.org/titles/smith-an-inquiry-into-the...
    - zeroname 8y ago
      It's "fair (market) price", not "fair market". > And the market, and economy, should serve the people. Not the people the market. This is a meaningless slogan. The market is the people. Demand reflects what people need. Supply reflects what people have to offer. Prices reflect their agreement.
      - dredmorbius 8y ago
        At this point in the game you should simply admit that whatever it is you're arguing has absolutely nothing to do with Adam Smith. Because it doesn't.
        zeroname 8y ago
        Okay, I'll admit that Zombie Adam Smith, as summoned by dredmorbius on HN, disagrees with me on what "fair market prices" are. I don't care.

dredmorbius 8y ago

But all too often the resources to pay a living wage exist but the market has been manipulated such that the labourer won't be able to claim that. Which is a great deal of what Smith discusses. And no, it's not welfare. It's balancing political power. Because, "Wealth, as Mr Hobbes says, is power." (Yeah, Smith again.)

zeroname 8y ago
> But all too often the resources to pay a living wage exist but the market has been manipulated such that the labourer won't be able to claim that. These are orthogonal. A fair market price simply isn't equal to the price that is required to sustain someone's living. A fair market price also is not equal to the price that could be paid (i.e. the "resources available"). The laborer whose price is raised to some arbitrary limit that is above the market rate will find demand for their labor disappear in equal measure.
- dredmorbius 8y ago
  "A fair market" ... does not exist. And the market, and economy, should serve the people. Not the people the market. "POLITICAL œconomy, considered as a branch of the science of a statesman or legislator, proposes two distinct objects: first, to provide a plentiful revenue or subsistence for the people, or more properly to enable them to provide such a revenue or subsistence for themselves; and secondly, to supply the state or commonwealth with a revenue sufficient for the public services. It proposes to enrich both the people and the sovereign." Again: Smith. https://oll.libertyfund.org/titles/smith-an-inquiry-into-the-nature-and-causes-of-the-wealth-of-nations-cannan-ed-vol-1 https://oll.libertyfund.org/titles/smith-an-inquiry-into-the...
  - zeroname 8y ago
    It's "fair (market) price", not "fair market". > And the market, and economy, should serve the people. Not the people the market. This is a meaningless slogan. The market is the people. Demand reflects what people need. Supply reflects what people have to offer. Prices reflect their agreement.
    - dredmorbius 8y ago
      At this point in the game you should simply admit that whatever it is you're arguing has absolutely nothing to do with Adam Smith. Because it doesn't.
      - zeroname 8y ago
        Okay, I'll admit that Zombie Adam Smith, as summoned by dredmorbius on HN, disagrees with me on what "fair market prices" are. I don't care.