4 ms·

Saying "not everyone can give their children better opportunities, so no one can give their children better opportunities" is one of the crappiest arguments aga

by ls612 8y ago

Saying "not everyone can give their children better opportunities, so no one can give their children better opportunities" is one of the crappiest arguments against charter schools. It's pure and simple envy and a desire to hurt those more fortunate.

fzeroracer 8y ago
The entire goal of basic schooling is to ensure all children are given equal opportunity and resources to grow into good citizens. Separating out people into haves and have-nots at the lowest level is a great way to grow economic stratification and further fuel discontent among the general population.
- stcredzero 8y ago
  If putting everyone together means that no one has an opportunity, then that's obviously not going to help.
  - fzeroracer 8y ago
    Except the reason why no one has an opportunity when put together is because of groups fleeing school systems (see: white flight) due to other issues like racism or religious reasons. The solution isn't to further punish the poor by essentially defunding public schools. It's to increase the quality of public schools and increase opportunity for people to go to school. And make no mistake, the entire point of school vouchers is to punish the poor.
    - stcredzero 8y ago
      Except the reason why no one has an opportunity when put together is because of groups fleeing school systems (see: white flight) due to other issues like racism or religious reasons. That makes no sense, given there are charter school successes located in those neighborhoods. There are also other initiatives that have focused on the whole environment of the children. The problem isn't racism. The problem is a self-perpetuating cycle of an environment that prevents good education. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harlem_Children%27s_Zone https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harlem_Children%27s_Zone And make no mistake, the entire point of school vouchers is to punish the poor. When I put myself in the shoes of that woman who approached me about her son, I find that I would want that school voucher! The entire point of opposing school vouchers is to preserve the urban bureaucratic status quo. Why not give those parents a choice? Do they currently trust the public school to provide their children a good education? My impression is that a lot of them don't.
      - fzeroracer 8y ago
        The entire point of opposing school vouchers is that the people pushing them and their implementation of school vouchers would devastate local school systems. There are some charter school successes, but that also ignores the many charter school failures [1] and the fact that again, they are barely beholden to any scrutiny. Charter schools also have a financial incentive to expel underperforming students in order to raise their average test scores rather than accommodate and improve their curriculum. And again, the problem is racism. White flight exists. It is why public schooling in those neighborhoods is so bad to begin with and to ignore the history of racism in the public schooling system does a disservice to your argument. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waiting_for_"Superman"#Educational_reception_and_allegations_of_inaccuracy https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waiting_for_"Superman"#Educa...
        stcredzero 8y ago
        The entire point of opposing school vouchers is that the people pushing them and their implementation of school vouchers would devastate local school systems Just because particular schools close, doesn't mean something bad is happening. In a market that actually works, no one is too big to fail. And again, the problem is racism. White flight exists. It is why public schooling in those neighborhoods is so bad to begin with Thomas Sowell remembers attending a very good school in Harlem, and that the neighborhood was safe enough for him to sleep outside on the fire escape, if it was too hot on a summer evening. The key difference has been effect of the welfare state on those neighborhoods, and the resulting degradation of the social fabric there, not the flight of white people. https://youtu.be/mS5WYp5xmvI?t=996 https://youtu.be/mS5WYp5xmvI?t=996
aidenn0 8y ago
Not wanting to subsidize a wealthy parent's child's tuition is a desire to hurt them?
- stcredzero 8y ago
  Not wanting to subsidize a wealthy parent's child's tuition is a desire to hurt them? Not wanting to subsidize a poor parent's child's education just because a wealthy parent's child might exploit it seems either spiteful, or desiring of too much perfection in a complex system.

by ls612 8y ago

fzeroracer 8y ago

The entire goal of basic schooling is to ensure all children are given equal opportunity and resources to grow into good citizens. Separating out people into haves and have-nots at the lowest level is a great way to grow economic stratification and further fuel discontent among the general population.

stcredzero 8y ago
If putting everyone together means that no one has an opportunity, then that's obviously not going to help.
- fzeroracer 8y ago
  Except the reason why no one has an opportunity when put together is because of groups fleeing school systems (see: white flight) due to other issues like racism or religious reasons. The solution isn't to further punish the poor by essentially defunding public schools. It's to increase the quality of public schools and increase opportunity for people to go to school. And make no mistake, the entire point of school vouchers is to punish the poor.
  - stcredzero 8y ago
    Except the reason why no one has an opportunity when put together is because of groups fleeing school systems (see: white flight) due to other issues like racism or religious reasons. That makes no sense, given there are charter school successes located in those neighborhoods. There are also other initiatives that have focused on the whole environment of the children. The problem isn't racism. The problem is a self-perpetuating cycle of an environment that prevents good education. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harlem_Children%27s_Zone https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harlem_Children%27s_Zone And make no mistake, the entire point of school vouchers is to punish the poor. When I put myself in the shoes of that woman who approached me about her son, I find that I would want that school voucher! The entire point of opposing school vouchers is to preserve the urban bureaucratic status quo. Why not give those parents a choice? Do they currently trust the public school to provide their children a good education? My impression is that a lot of them don't.
    - fzeroracer 8y ago
      The entire point of opposing school vouchers is that the people pushing them and their implementation of school vouchers would devastate local school systems. There are some charter school successes, but that also ignores the many charter school failures [1] and the fact that again, they are barely beholden to any scrutiny. Charter schools also have a financial incentive to expel underperforming students in order to raise their average test scores rather than accommodate and improve their curriculum. And again, the problem is racism. White flight exists. It is why public schooling in those neighborhoods is so bad to begin with and to ignore the history of racism in the public schooling system does a disservice to your argument. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waiting_for_"Superman"#Educational_reception_and_allegations_of_inaccuracy https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waiting_for_"Superman"#Educa...
      - stcredzero 8y ago
        The entire point of opposing school vouchers is that the people pushing them and their implementation of school vouchers would devastate local school systems Just because particular schools close, doesn't mean something bad is happening. In a market that actually works, no one is too big to fail. And again, the problem is racism. White flight exists. It is why public schooling in those neighborhoods is so bad to begin with Thomas Sowell remembers attending a very good school in Harlem, and that the neighborhood was safe enough for him to sleep outside on the fire escape, if it was too hot on a summer evening. The key difference has been effect of the welfare state on those neighborhoods, and the resulting degradation of the social fabric there, not the flight of white people. https://youtu.be/mS5WYp5xmvI?t=996 https://youtu.be/mS5WYp5xmvI?t=996

aidenn0 8y ago

Not wanting to subsidize a wealthy parent's child's tuition is a desire to hurt them?

stcredzero 8y ago
Not wanting to subsidize a wealthy parent's child's tuition is a desire to hurt them? Not wanting to subsidize a poor parent's child's education just because a wealthy parent's child might exploit it seems either spiteful, or desiring of too much perfection in a complex system.