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I'm not a huge Bitcoin fan, but it has proven flexible in cross border transactions. The network can run out of any country. If the USD goes to zero for some un

I'm not a huge Bitcoin fan, but it has proven flexible in cross border transactions. The network can run out of any country. If the USD goes to zero for some unknown reason, you get out and land in Russia, your USD could be worthless and you can only fit so much gold in your private jet. Private keys though? Those go with you, and as long as the network is still live, you aren't broke. Lotto tickets are tied to a short time frame and country. Macaroni has a shelf life and does not transport well. Bitcoin is volatile but deflationary, so short of a network collapse it will likely retain value.

strangattractor 8y ago
I am not seeing the deflationary part. They just split it and created twice as much Bitcoin and Bitcoin cash. There is a new Bitcoin like currency minted every 5 minutes. It is far cheaper to create digital currencies than paper money and far easier to steal. I think it is a delusion. That is not to say the technology cannot be useful. It has a lot of problems. Wait for Bitcoin 2.0 You think he is planning on having to leave the country? How would he have time. The average CEO is working 80Hrs per week. Much more than their over paid thralls. He is CEO of 2 companies. That is 160Hrs per week. Plus the 10 day silent meditation retreats. You guys do not realize the excruciating demands placed on todays CEO's. They truly are our modern hero's. He should be given his own reality show.
- arcticbull 8y ago
  Yeah, (a) in totality, Bitcoin is still being mined and therefore inflating, at a rate of 3.81% per annum at the moment meaning the BTC inflation rate today is approximately double the US dollar. Obviously that's slated to change, but it's definitely not true now. It's been inflating massively all these years and yet its' value is still going up; fascinating. Almost like inflation isn't a bad thing? (b) The effective inflation rate is massively negative because everyone keeps losing their keys. A friend asked me re: Satoshi "If he didn't believe in what he built and the future, why isn't he moving his genesis coins? What kind of man would do that?" My answer was: "the kind of man who lost his keys." (c) The inflation rate of the crypto space in totality to your point is astronomical, since anyone can just fork a currency, give a few tokens to some promoters/shills/exchanges, get listed, and boom, that's a dump-truck of sweet sweet crypto. (d) I'd watch the hell out of the Jack Dorsey reality TV series.
- LyndsySimon 8y ago
  > They just split it and created twice as much Bitcoin and Bitcoin cash. Not really - Bitcoin Cash is an entirely different "currency", that shares the history of Bitcoin up to the point where it forked. > You think he is planning on having to leave the country? I seriously doubt it. $10k / week for Jack Dorsey is a reasonable amount to use as a hedge against Bitcoin going exponential again. If it does, he's even richer. If it doesn't? Meh, so what. It's "only" $520k / year, and it's unlikely to lose all of its value anyhow.
  - strangattractor 8y ago
    So you are saying that if I owned a bitcoin before the split worth X and owned a bitcoin and bitcoin cash worth X + Y after the split that is not identical printing money. If the US made dollarsPlus and gave you one for every dollar you currently have and said you can spend them just like dollars. That is a different currency and would not be inflationary I suppose.
arcticbull 8y ago
Tell that to people who bought in January of last year :) some of that shelf-stable macaroni would have held its value better.
- TACIXAT 8y ago
  Yea, sure, you can cherry pick dates. Like if you bought the S&P 500 last September at an all time high. However, it's not about making and losing money when you're hedging against major crashes. It's about it retaining some semblance of value when something else tends to zero. I'd be very happy to own $100k of BTC if my (hypothetical) 5 billion USD suddenly evaporated, even if that $100k of BTC used to be $200k.
  - arcticbull 8y ago
    Except if you bought the S&P at the all-time high you'd still have 95% of your money, instead of 10% of your money. Further when the stock market crashed, BTC did too, it didn't help. My point is there are so many hedging options out there, why this one?! If gold dropped to 10% of its value one day how many goldbugs do you think would be screaming HODL and STORE OF VALUE? Or "what if there's a financial apocalypse" when their portfolio looks like they've already weathered Black Tuesday. There are tons of assets out there that haven't dropped huge amounts. Is it sunk cost? Religiosity? I guess what I'm trying to say is nobody would declare nascent tech stocks to be a great store of value and a hedge against the apocalypse. There's tons of volatility and by most peoples' assessment (not mine though) it's the young up-start go-getter. What makes this different?
jshaqaw 8y ago
If the USD goes to zero then I absolutely guarantee you that your bitcoin will not retain a shred of purchasing value. This statement reminds me of people who buy CDS on US Treasuries assuming that in a world where the US really defaults on its debt (not some technical default without meaningful economic consequences) then your counterparts will still exist to pay up.

strangattractor 8y ago

I am not seeing the deflationary part. They just split it and created twice as much Bitcoin and Bitcoin cash. There is a new Bitcoin like currency minted every 5 minutes. It is far cheaper to create digital currencies than paper money and far easier to steal. I think it is a delusion. That is not to say the technology cannot be useful. It has a lot of problems. Wait for Bitcoin 2.0 You think he is planning on having to leave the country? How would he have time. The average CEO is working 80Hrs per week. Much more than their over paid thralls. He is CEO of 2 companies. That is 160Hrs per week. Plus the 10 day silent meditation retreats. You guys do not realize the excruciating demands placed on todays CEO's. They truly are our modern hero's. He should be given his own reality show.

arcticbull 8y ago
Yeah, (a) in totality, Bitcoin is still being mined and therefore inflating, at a rate of 3.81% per annum at the moment meaning the BTC inflation rate today is approximately double the US dollar. Obviously that's slated to change, but it's definitely not true now. It's been inflating massively all these years and yet its' value is still going up; fascinating. Almost like inflation isn't a bad thing? (b) The effective inflation rate is massively negative because everyone keeps losing their keys. A friend asked me re: Satoshi "If he didn't believe in what he built and the future, why isn't he moving his genesis coins? What kind of man would do that?" My answer was: "the kind of man who lost his keys." (c) The inflation rate of the crypto space in totality to your point is astronomical, since anyone can just fork a currency, give a few tokens to some promoters/shills/exchanges, get listed, and boom, that's a dump-truck of sweet sweet crypto. (d) I'd watch the hell out of the Jack Dorsey reality TV series.
LyndsySimon 8y ago
> They just split it and created twice as much Bitcoin and Bitcoin cash. Not really - Bitcoin Cash is an entirely different "currency", that shares the history of Bitcoin up to the point where it forked. > You think he is planning on having to leave the country? I seriously doubt it. $10k / week for Jack Dorsey is a reasonable amount to use as a hedge against Bitcoin going exponential again. If it does, he's even richer. If it doesn't? Meh, so what. It's "only" $520k / year, and it's unlikely to lose all of its value anyhow.
- strangattractor 8y ago
  So you are saying that if I owned a bitcoin before the split worth X and owned a bitcoin and bitcoin cash worth X + Y after the split that is not identical printing money. If the US made dollarsPlus and gave you one for every dollar you currently have and said you can spend them just like dollars. That is a different currency and would not be inflationary I suppose.

arcticbull 8y ago

Tell that to people who bought in January of last year :) some of that shelf-stable macaroni would have held its value better.

TACIXAT 8y ago
Yea, sure, you can cherry pick dates. Like if you bought the S&P 500 last September at an all time high. However, it's not about making and losing money when you're hedging against major crashes. It's about it retaining some semblance of value when something else tends to zero. I'd be very happy to own $100k of BTC if my (hypothetical) 5 billion USD suddenly evaporated, even if that $100k of BTC used to be $200k.
- arcticbull 8y ago
  Except if you bought the S&P at the all-time high you'd still have 95% of your money, instead of 10% of your money. Further when the stock market crashed, BTC did too, it didn't help. My point is there are so many hedging options out there, why this one?! If gold dropped to 10% of its value one day how many goldbugs do you think would be screaming HODL and STORE OF VALUE? Or "what if there's a financial apocalypse" when their portfolio looks like they've already weathered Black Tuesday. There are tons of assets out there that haven't dropped huge amounts. Is it sunk cost? Religiosity? I guess what I'm trying to say is nobody would declare nascent tech stocks to be a great store of value and a hedge against the apocalypse. There's tons of volatility and by most peoples' assessment (not mine though) it's the young up-start go-getter. What makes this different?

jshaqaw 8y ago

If the USD goes to zero then I absolutely guarantee you that your bitcoin will not retain a shred of purchasing value. This statement reminds me of people who buy CDS on US Treasuries assuming that in a world where the US really defaults on its debt (not some technical default without meaningful economic consequences) then your counterparts will still exist to pay up.