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Should one wish to work for Google, they have heaps of offices worldwide in much more reasonably-priced locales. I left California years ago and I will never re

Should one wish to work for Google, they have heaps of offices worldwide in much more reasonably-priced locales. I left California years ago and I will never return. My modest home here in Texas would go for over 2M in California, along with the ridiculous property taxes and other shenanigans there. Texas is not perfect, but Houston beats California hands down in terms of quality of life (with the exception of the heat). Everything here is fairly inexpensive. You can still buy a plot of land and build a house for under 200k. 200k wouldn't buy the postage stamp lot in California. Texas also doesn't have state tax. Politicians suck in both states. Traffic here is mild in comparison. I work 27 miles from home and the commute takes me about 30 minutes, even in decently heavy traffic. I pay $70 for 400/50 Internet connection, and I live in the sticks. SlingTV is another $30.

cschep 8y ago
Living in Texas just isn't the same as living in CA. Some people prefer it, but it's cheaper for a reason. On the whole, fewer people prefer it.
- stirfrykitty 8y ago
  I agree with you. I'm here because this is where my wife is from. She's a Houston native and wants to be near her parents. Mine are dead and she and our children are my family, so it works for me. Socially, Texas is a backwater. The culture here is fairly homogeneous. The cities are a little better, but not by much. Austin is touted as a more progressive city, but really it's not. I've attended a number of tech conferences there, done work in the area, and it's largely the same as Houston. Keep Austin Weird is their mantra, but what it really amounts to is we will not arrest the homeless, illegals, and occasional dope smokers. Every other aspect is the same. Austin lives and dies because of UT, 6th Street, and the live music scene. That's it. Were I to suddenly come into money, I could see myself buying a plot of land and building a house in Vermont near a lake.
  - cschep 8y ago
    Absolutely. Good luck with the lake plan, sounds like a good idea :)
- malvosenior 8y ago
  Just a nit pick. It doesn't necessarily mean fewer people want to live in Texas. SF and the Bay Area in general have a hard constraint on city size, limiting the available inventory (and pushing up prices). In Texas cities can spread indefinitely, thus keeping costs down. It also could be that fewer people with lots of money want to live in SF and bid against each other.
  - cschep 8y ago
    That's fair. It also takes a certain amount of wealth to get to choose where you live in the first place. But I think my point is still "mostly" true :)
dmode 8y ago
But can you hop jobs every two years between Google, Facebook, Uber, Airbnb, Pinterest ? And grow your savings exponentially ? There are other social reasons that I personally don't want to live in Texas, but that's a separate discussion
- ravenstine 8y ago
  There are also reasons why people would rather not work for Big Tech / unicorns. Money isn't everything to everyone, and hopping between these companies every few years loses its appeal for those who actually want to settle down and have families. You can work outside of Silicon Valley and make a salary that puts you in the top 10% of earners. If being smack dab in the middle of "the biz" works out for you, then that's great, but it also can be a carrot on the end of a stick for those who aren't cut out for that lifestyle in the first place.
  - dmode 8y ago
    I agree money isn't everything. But having a lot of it makes life a little easier. Living here is also an opportunity to live in the front lines and see early adoption. Also, the limitless ability to take on challenging projects. I actually have a family with a kid. I am thankful that I can work on great stuff and raise a family
ravenstine 8y ago
California is a nice place but pretty overrated, and I'm saying this as someone who has lived there most of this life but has been to/lived in other states and countries. The cost of living and the taxes here are atrocious in comparison to what we get in return, which is subpar schools and lousy public transit. Let's not even get started on the homeless problem. The more we decentralize tech out of California, the better. Having pockets of tech in different cities would be preferable so long as we have more opportunities to use our earned dollars effectively. You can make six figures in California and still end up living like a rat because of how expensive everything is. Having recently landed a fully-remote job, I want this to be a year of "reconnaissance" where I'm going to take small trips around the country to check out places where I might want to live next, and where I might actually be able to enjoy some of what I earn. I'll have to add Houston to the roadmap.
- stirfrykitty 8y ago
  The Woodlands is a great place in the Houston area. It's north of the city and a fairly varied place as far as Texas goes. There are tons of companies, tech and otherwise here. Housing can be expensive by Texas standards, but would not cause a Californian to flinch. I know several California families who sold their homes there and bought their houses outright here in Texas, which has done wonders for their incomes. IT pay in Texas is subpar. I used to live in Northern Virgina and my base pay there was over 100k. Good luck with that in Texas--anywhere. The cost of living here just doesn't support those wages. The average IT salary here is 55-75k. More can be had, but those jobs are just not prevalent here like on either coast. I had a potential job opportunity in NYC, but my wife looked at me like I had grown horns. The money would have been great, but like California, the COL is outrageous. But...the public transport is great. It's walkable. Tons of culture and food, better weather. I like snow. I like rain.
bilbo0s 8y ago
>* Houston beats California hands down in terms of quality of life (with the exception of the heat)...* I lived in Houston, (Museum District/Third Ward/Whatever you want to call it), for a good long time. (Three or four hurricanes.) I actually loved it. That said, I would not say, at all, that it beats the valley for QoL. Setting that expectation up in peoples' minds just leads to disappointment. And it's the genesis of a lot of the bad stories we hear about peoples' experiences in Texas on a daily basis. If you have realistic expectations, and subscribe to the "When in Rome..." philosophy, you will find a lot of fun things and fun people in Houston. You will have a really good time. If you come with the expectation and demand of a great QoL, a QoL that rivals San Fran, or Boston, or Chicago, etc, you're likely to be disagreeably surprised. We need to start measuring cities on their own merits. Measuring cities against the bar set by what are really becoming early stage city-states is a little unfair. Houston is great. Omaha is AWESOME. Minneapolis is a blast. Don't even get me started on how awesome places like Charlotte or Madison can be. But you have to be open to what's there, and not go there looking for everything you had in San Fran. You do that in Houston, and you'll just be disappointed, and then the yearly floods will come, and you'll be pissed off on top of being disappointed. But if you look out your window after the storm, you'll probably see everyone on your block out grilling! (May as well get rid of any meat in your fridge by grilling it, because you don't know when the power will come back on!) I mean, it really can be a blast! Seriously, Just do without the wifi for a few days. (Or weeks if it was a hurricane.) You'll be happy you did.
- stirfrykitty 8y ago
  I agree with you. For me, it's better than CA. I live near The Woodlands, so the hurricane thing is not so much of a worry. My wife has family down in Montrose, and it can be fun down there, but I would not live in Houston proper due to the sheer amount of time it takes to get places, as you know. It takes a vast amount of time to drive across Houston, even at night. People don't realize that Houston, area wise, is like a small country. If I want to go to the beach from here, it's like 2 hours. Like I said in another post, if I ever came into serious money, I'd buy some land and build a house outside Burlington, VT. Proper four seasons, proper fishing, proper winter activities.
patejam 8y ago
People seem to focus a lot on the small things. Can I make $300k/year a few years out of college in Texas? If I want to switch companies, can I easily find another similar position near by? Can I golf and ski and hike in the same weekend (really just making an argument for the weather here)? Those are the questions that matter to me the most. I'm looking to put as much money into my savings as I can per year. 1) Cost of food/other living expenses is a very small percentage. 2) $1500 rent (sharing with gf) = $18k a year, also a small percentage if I ended up paying, what, half in Texas? a third? 3) Sure, I can't buy property here, but I'm fine with that for now. 4) My commute is 20 minutes right now. * This is all with tech salaries. Obviously with lower salaries, smaller things become larger percentages.
TheSpiciestDev 8y ago
As a native Houstonian (out in Katy) I do agree. I'm interested to see the metropolitan area grow further and to see what more IT work comes out of it all.
- stirfrykitty 8y ago
  I don't get out to your area often unless I'm heading towards SA and the Hill Country. What's the tech scene like out there? Any purely IT companies or is it IT for services, schools, etc?
  - TheSpiciestDev 8y ago
    While I'd consider the energy corridor as the closest source of high-tech to Katy (with a handful of small to large oil/gas/energy operations) I see everything else still more into Houston. I work up and down the Sam Houston toll road, so it's a casual 30-45min commute to work. There are a handful of local industry parks out here with small/medium-sized businesses that will in-house their IT or contract out the work. Amazon built their distribution center just 15min out, but I don't think that houses any IT work, yet. Being in Katy for 25+ years and seeing it blow up in growth, I'm interested to see how northwest Houston grows (new subdivisions, industry parks, infrastructure, etc.)
    - stirfrykitty 8y ago
      Thanks for the reply. Interesting. Sadly, here in The Woodlands area, last year the O&G industries laid off tons of IT people. Loads of people suddenly found themselves with no jobs or working at Home Depot to make ends meet. My own neighborhood had a scary amount of For Sale signs up, so I asked around and learned it was because of the downturn. One of the guys sold forklifts for a living to big companies and he was thinking of getting out of O&G sales altogether. Houston is an interesting place to be sure.

cschep 8y ago

Living in Texas just isn't the same as living in CA. Some people prefer it, but it's cheaper for a reason. On the whole, fewer people prefer it.

stirfrykitty 8y ago
I agree with you. I'm here because this is where my wife is from. She's a Houston native and wants to be near her parents. Mine are dead and she and our children are my family, so it works for me. Socially, Texas is a backwater. The culture here is fairly homogeneous. The cities are a little better, but not by much. Austin is touted as a more progressive city, but really it's not. I've attended a number of tech conferences there, done work in the area, and it's largely the same as Houston. Keep Austin Weird is their mantra, but what it really amounts to is we will not arrest the homeless, illegals, and occasional dope smokers. Every other aspect is the same. Austin lives and dies because of UT, 6th Street, and the live music scene. That's it. Were I to suddenly come into money, I could see myself buying a plot of land and building a house in Vermont near a lake.
- cschep 8y ago
  Absolutely. Good luck with the lake plan, sounds like a good idea :)
malvosenior 8y ago
Just a nit pick. It doesn't necessarily mean fewer people want to live in Texas. SF and the Bay Area in general have a hard constraint on city size, limiting the available inventory (and pushing up prices). In Texas cities can spread indefinitely, thus keeping costs down. It also could be that fewer people with lots of money want to live in SF and bid against each other.
- cschep 8y ago
  That's fair. It also takes a certain amount of wealth to get to choose where you live in the first place. But I think my point is still "mostly" true :)

dmode 8y ago

But can you hop jobs every two years between Google, Facebook, Uber, Airbnb, Pinterest ? And grow your savings exponentially ? There are other social reasons that I personally don't want to live in Texas, but that's a separate discussion

ravenstine 8y ago
There are also reasons why people would rather not work for Big Tech / unicorns. Money isn't everything to everyone, and hopping between these companies every few years loses its appeal for those who actually want to settle down and have families. You can work outside of Silicon Valley and make a salary that puts you in the top 10% of earners. If being smack dab in the middle of "the biz" works out for you, then that's great, but it also can be a carrot on the end of a stick for those who aren't cut out for that lifestyle in the first place.
- dmode 8y ago
  I agree money isn't everything. But having a lot of it makes life a little easier. Living here is also an opportunity to live in the front lines and see early adoption. Also, the limitless ability to take on challenging projects. I actually have a family with a kid. I am thankful that I can work on great stuff and raise a family

ravenstine 8y ago

California is a nice place but pretty overrated, and I'm saying this as someone who has lived there most of this life but has been to/lived in other states and countries. The cost of living and the taxes here are atrocious in comparison to what we get in return, which is subpar schools and lousy public transit. Let's not even get started on the homeless problem. The more we decentralize tech out of California, the better. Having pockets of tech in different cities would be preferable so long as we have more opportunities to use our earned dollars effectively. You can make six figures in California and still end up living like a rat because of how expensive everything is. Having recently landed a fully-remote job, I want this to be a year of "reconnaissance" where I'm going to take small trips around the country to check out places where I might want to live next, and where I might actually be able to enjoy some of what I earn. I'll have to add Houston to the roadmap.

stirfrykitty 8y ago
The Woodlands is a great place in the Houston area. It's north of the city and a fairly varied place as far as Texas goes. There are tons of companies, tech and otherwise here. Housing can be expensive by Texas standards, but would not cause a Californian to flinch. I know several California families who sold their homes there and bought their houses outright here in Texas, which has done wonders for their incomes. IT pay in Texas is subpar. I used to live in Northern Virgina and my base pay there was over 100k. Good luck with that in Texas--anywhere. The cost of living here just doesn't support those wages. The average IT salary here is 55-75k. More can be had, but those jobs are just not prevalent here like on either coast. I had a potential job opportunity in NYC, but my wife looked at me like I had grown horns. The money would have been great, but like California, the COL is outrageous. But...the public transport is great. It's walkable. Tons of culture and food, better weather. I like snow. I like rain.

bilbo0s 8y ago

>* Houston beats California hands down in terms of quality of life (with the exception of the heat)...* I lived in Houston, (Museum District/Third Ward/Whatever you want to call it), for a good long time. (Three or four hurricanes.) I actually loved it. That said, I would not say, at all, that it beats the valley for QoL. Setting that expectation up in peoples' minds just leads to disappointment. And it's the genesis of a lot of the bad stories we hear about peoples' experiences in Texas on a daily basis. If you have realistic expectations, and subscribe to the "When in Rome..." philosophy, you will find a lot of fun things and fun people in Houston. You will have a really good time. If you come with the expectation and demand of a great QoL, a QoL that rivals San Fran, or Boston, or Chicago, etc, you're likely to be disagreeably surprised. We need to start measuring cities on their own merits. Measuring cities against the bar set by what are really becoming early stage city-states is a little unfair. Houston is great. Omaha is AWESOME. Minneapolis is a blast. Don't even get me started on how awesome places like Charlotte or Madison can be. But you have to be open to what's there, and not go there looking for everything you had in San Fran. You do that in Houston, and you'll just be disappointed, and then the yearly floods will come, and you'll be pissed off on top of being disappointed. But if you look out your window after the storm, you'll probably see everyone on your block out grilling! (May as well get rid of any meat in your fridge by grilling it, because you don't know when the power will come back on!) I mean, it really can be a blast! Seriously, Just do without the wifi for a few days. (Or weeks if it was a hurricane.) You'll be happy you did.

stirfrykitty 8y ago
I agree with you. For me, it's better than CA. I live near The Woodlands, so the hurricane thing is not so much of a worry. My wife has family down in Montrose, and it can be fun down there, but I would not live in Houston proper due to the sheer amount of time it takes to get places, as you know. It takes a vast amount of time to drive across Houston, even at night. People don't realize that Houston, area wise, is like a small country. If I want to go to the beach from here, it's like 2 hours. Like I said in another post, if I ever came into serious money, I'd buy some land and build a house outside Burlington, VT. Proper four seasons, proper fishing, proper winter activities.

patejam 8y ago

People seem to focus a lot on the small things. Can I make $300k/year a few years out of college in Texas? If I want to switch companies, can I easily find another similar position near by? Can I golf and ski and hike in the same weekend (really just making an argument for the weather here)? Those are the questions that matter to me the most. I'm looking to put as much money into my savings as I can per year. 1) Cost of food/other living expenses is a very small percentage. 2) $1500 rent (sharing with gf) = $18k a year, also a small percentage if I ended up paying, what, half in Texas? a third? 3) Sure, I can't buy property here, but I'm fine with that for now. 4) My commute is 20 minutes right now. * This is all with tech salaries. Obviously with lower salaries, smaller things become larger percentages.

TheSpiciestDev 8y ago

As a native Houstonian (out in Katy) I do agree. I'm interested to see the metropolitan area grow further and to see what more IT work comes out of it all.

stirfrykitty 8y ago
I don't get out to your area often unless I'm heading towards SA and the Hill Country. What's the tech scene like out there? Any purely IT companies or is it IT for services, schools, etc?
- TheSpiciestDev 8y ago
  While I'd consider the energy corridor as the closest source of high-tech to Katy (with a handful of small to large oil/gas/energy operations) I see everything else still more into Houston. I work up and down the Sam Houston toll road, so it's a casual 30-45min commute to work. There are a handful of local industry parks out here with small/medium-sized businesses that will in-house their IT or contract out the work. Amazon built their distribution center just 15min out, but I don't think that houses any IT work, yet. Being in Katy for 25+ years and seeing it blow up in growth, I'm interested to see how northwest Houston grows (new subdivisions, industry parks, infrastructure, etc.)
  - stirfrykitty 8y ago
    Thanks for the reply. Interesting. Sadly, here in The Woodlands area, last year the O&G industries laid off tons of IT people. Loads of people suddenly found themselves with no jobs or working at Home Depot to make ends meet. My own neighborhood had a scary amount of For Sale signs up, so I asked around and learned it was because of the downturn. One of the guys sold forklifts for a living to big companies and he was thinking of getting out of O&G sales altogether. Houston is an interesting place to be sure.