4 ms·

Propaganda is so effective in NK that the people believe their leader is the good guy and that the rest of the world is evil. Bombing them will only get rid of

by mrb 16y ago

Propaganda is so effective in NK that the people believe their leader is the good guy and that the rest of the world is evil. Bombing them will only get rid of the leaders, set the country a few decades back wasting time rebuilding everything, but these corrupted ideas will remain in place amongst the survivors. I believe the only long-term solution to NK is education of their people, which will hopefully lead to either progressive reform of the regime, or even revolution. Education is happening right now with Internet slowly penetrating the country, notably via black market cell phones. Edit: as one of the child posts point out, propaganda is eroding. Change is on its way!

tomjen3 16y ago
The idea was to get rid of the Artillery positions and leave the rest, I don't think getting into another nationbuilding exercise would be wise.
- InclinedPlane 16y ago
  Realistically, if the regime in the North fell (in whatever manner) the Korean peninsula would likely re-unite with the South taking the leadership position (much like German re-unification).
  - cdavid 16y ago
    Given that North Korea is one of the poorest country in the world, and is ~ 50 % of south korea population, what do you think is realistic about reunification today, really ? I also doubt China would allow for the North Korean regime to fail through force so that a closed US ally would have borders with it - assuming the US could allow yet another war in the current climate and its current economy, which is somewhat doubtful.
    - InclinedPlane 16y ago
      It's realistic in that it's one of the few viable long-term outcomes to the whole mess, the other option being annexation or proxy rule by China. China would probably be ok with a unified Korea as the lesser problem. The DPRK is not exactly helping China currently, except making them look good in comparison. But the problem with North Korean belligerence is that it serves as a strong motivation for militarization of the whole region. China may be hesitant of a unified Korean peninsula but on the other hand the continued existence of the DPRK regime gives excuse for a strong American presence in South Korea and could lead to escalations in the region the Chinese don't want (a nuclear armed Korea or Japan?) Also, a unified Korea would save the Chinese from having to deal with the mess of the North.
      - deleted 16y ago
        [deleted]
  - ugh 16y ago
    If I were the South I wouldn’t be enthusiastic about that. West Germany had it easy. People in the East were never completely cut off, they weren’t starving, they weren’t even poor, they had educations and knowledge that would be useful in a united Germany and they weren’t ruled by a tyrant. Oh, and unification was still hard for Germany. Just imagine how hard it would be to give the North in an united Korea something as ordinary as a working public administration. Those who now have that job in North Korea probably aren’t the best material for the task and I doubt that many other people in North Korea are sufficiently educated to put them to work immediately. You would have to ship thousands of South Koreans with the right training to the North – I have no idea how you could lure them – who would presumably have to stay there for years to take over public administration and educate people from the North. And that’s just one of the problems you would have to solve in order to unify Korea.
    - yread 16y ago
      They also speak a slightly different language
    - InclinedPlane 16y ago
      It would be a far harder problem than unifying Germany. But there would likely be a lot of foreign aid coming in. In the end it doesn't really matter how hard the problem is, if it has to be done it has to be done. The only long-term alternatives are annihilation of the North, the North turning into a failed state but sans the Stalinist regime and WMDs, or annexation to China, which would be even more difficult than unification because of the language and cultural differences, not to mention all of China's serious problems in basic administration.
    - fleitz 16y ago
      These things you speak of are not something that is given, rather it is something that the people build. Whatever the situation in North Korea it would only be made better by allowing the populace to trade freely, communicate freely and enjoy all the other rights endowed to every human being by their creator. Do you not think there are many people in North Korea willing to work 16 hour days to have enough money to buy food? Do you not think there are people willing to employ people to work 16 hour days for enough to buy food? I'm not saying this is an ideal situation, however it is a vastly better situation than that which currently exists. North Korea survives on a shoe string, it would not be difficult to match this with foreign aid, let alone the capital investment that would pour into a free North Korea. China was in a similar situation 30 years ago. Waiting longer to solve this problem will not make it easier, everyday North Korea falls further behind the rest of the world.
rwmj 16y ago
The Economist was suggesting a few weeks ago that this is not (so much) the case any more. http://www.economist.com/research/articlesBySubject/displaystory.cfm?subjectid=1530567&story_id=17259065 http://www.economist.com/research/articlesBySubject/displays...
radu_floricica 16y ago
I wonder how practical it would be to create a modern version of WWII airdropped pamphlets. A cheap/light device to offer internet access. Wonder if'd be better to go with mesh networking all the way, or to parachute/hide cells with satellite dishes.
- jackolas 16y ago
  This seems like a good idea to counter their offensive. Generally I'd say this would be interpreted as an attack, but this seems like it'd be more justified and classy.
- cynicalkane 16y ago
  They do this already, with air dropped pamphlets from balloons. It doesn't help because almost all of the people they're trying to reach can't even read. Also, being caught with a pamphlet is punishable by whatever arbitrary punishment the state comes up with.
liuliu 16y ago
Put aside the China factor, I still believe that with a surgical strike, it is possible to remove the current regime and reunited the Korea, given the crappy economy in NK and that there are some reformers inside NK itself. There are young people in NK that doesn't believe the ideology at all. And the recent failure of its currency reform would be a sign that the brain-wash education may not be as effective as outsider's thought. It would be more interesting if you weight the China factor in. I do believe that the current Communist Party in China has strong interest to keep the current status in NK.

by mrb 16y ago

tomjen3 16y ago

The idea was to get rid of the Artillery positions and leave the rest, I don't think getting into another nationbuilding exercise would be wise.

InclinedPlane 16y ago
Realistically, if the regime in the North fell (in whatever manner) the Korean peninsula would likely re-unite with the South taking the leadership position (much like German re-unification).
- cdavid 16y ago
  Given that North Korea is one of the poorest country in the world, and is ~ 50 % of south korea population, what do you think is realistic about reunification today, really ? I also doubt China would allow for the North Korean regime to fail through force so that a closed US ally would have borders with it - assuming the US could allow yet another war in the current climate and its current economy, which is somewhat doubtful.
  - InclinedPlane 16y ago
    It's realistic in that it's one of the few viable long-term outcomes to the whole mess, the other option being annexation or proxy rule by China. China would probably be ok with a unified Korea as the lesser problem. The DPRK is not exactly helping China currently, except making them look good in comparison. But the problem with North Korean belligerence is that it serves as a strong motivation for militarization of the whole region. China may be hesitant of a unified Korean peninsula but on the other hand the continued existence of the DPRK regime gives excuse for a strong American presence in South Korea and could lead to escalations in the region the Chinese don't want (a nuclear armed Korea or Japan?) Also, a unified Korea would save the Chinese from having to deal with the mess of the North.
    - deleted 16y ago
      [deleted]
- ugh 16y ago
  If I were the South I wouldn’t be enthusiastic about that. West Germany had it easy. People in the East were never completely cut off, they weren’t starving, they weren’t even poor, they had educations and knowledge that would be useful in a united Germany and they weren’t ruled by a tyrant. Oh, and unification was still hard for Germany. Just imagine how hard it would be to give the North in an united Korea something as ordinary as a working public administration. Those who now have that job in North Korea probably aren’t the best material for the task and I doubt that many other people in North Korea are sufficiently educated to put them to work immediately. You would have to ship thousands of South Koreans with the right training to the North – I have no idea how you could lure them – who would presumably have to stay there for years to take over public administration and educate people from the North. And that’s just one of the problems you would have to solve in order to unify Korea.
  - yread 16y ago
    They also speak a slightly different language
  - InclinedPlane 16y ago
    It would be a far harder problem than unifying Germany. But there would likely be a lot of foreign aid coming in. In the end it doesn't really matter how hard the problem is, if it has to be done it has to be done. The only long-term alternatives are annihilation of the North, the North turning into a failed state but sans the Stalinist regime and WMDs, or annexation to China, which would be even more difficult than unification because of the language and cultural differences, not to mention all of China's serious problems in basic administration.
  - fleitz 16y ago
    These things you speak of are not something that is given, rather it is something that the people build. Whatever the situation in North Korea it would only be made better by allowing the populace to trade freely, communicate freely and enjoy all the other rights endowed to every human being by their creator. Do you not think there are many people in North Korea willing to work 16 hour days to have enough money to buy food? Do you not think there are people willing to employ people to work 16 hour days for enough to buy food? I'm not saying this is an ideal situation, however it is a vastly better situation than that which currently exists. North Korea survives on a shoe string, it would not be difficult to match this with foreign aid, let alone the capital investment that would pour into a free North Korea. China was in a similar situation 30 years ago. Waiting longer to solve this problem will not make it easier, everyday North Korea falls further behind the rest of the world.

rwmj 16y ago

The Economist was suggesting a few weeks ago that this is not (so much) the case any more. http://www.economist.com/research/articlesBySubject/displaystory.cfm?subjectid=1530567&story_id=17259065 http://www.economist.com/research/articlesBySubject/displays...

radu_floricica 16y ago

I wonder how practical it would be to create a modern version of WWII airdropped pamphlets. A cheap/light device to offer internet access. Wonder if'd be better to go with mesh networking all the way, or to parachute/hide cells with satellite dishes.

jackolas 16y ago
This seems like a good idea to counter their offensive. Generally I'd say this would be interpreted as an attack, but this seems like it'd be more justified and classy.
cynicalkane 16y ago
They do this already, with air dropped pamphlets from balloons. It doesn't help because almost all of the people they're trying to reach can't even read. Also, being caught with a pamphlet is punishable by whatever arbitrary punishment the state comes up with.

liuliu 16y ago

Put aside the China factor, I still believe that with a surgical strike, it is possible to remove the current regime and reunited the Korea, given the crappy economy in NK and that there are some reformers inside NK itself. There are young people in NK that doesn't believe the ideology at all. And the recent failure of its currency reform would be a sign that the brain-wash education may not be as effective as outsider's thought. It would be more interesting if you weight the China factor in. I do believe that the current Communist Party in China has strong interest to keep the current status in NK.