4 ms·

Based on what I see, it looks like the US Govt is keeping tabs on those persons (journalists) who are sympathetic to the cause of of a group of people (the cara

Based on what I see, it looks like the US Govt is keeping tabs on those persons (journalists) who are sympathetic to the cause of of a group of people (the caravans) intending to breach the country border. How is this intimidation? Isn't this "Keeping borders safe 101" ? (I'm a legal temp immigrant in the US, and I have a hard time understanding why some things are news in this country).

tdb7893 8y ago
Being sympathetic isn't a crime. Also covering things as a journalist not only isn't a crime but also is protected in many forms by the Constitution. Americans are very very very touchy about possible freedom of speech and freedom of the press violations. I'm not sure what crime these journalists are going to commit that makes us need to track them.
- calvinbhai 8y ago
  Curious: So, if for some reason, there are journalists that are creating content for groups/regimes that are anti-America (lets say ISIS, Assad, Ahmedinajad or Jong Un), would that journalist never been seen with any kind of suspicion in the US?
  - tdb7893 8y ago
    The thing is that you really need some specific reason to be suspicious and being a journalist or activist isn't inherently suspicious. It's not that you can't be suspicious of journalists, you just need an actual reason and there really isn't a clear one here. Edit: People are also particularly touchy about this because suppression of activists and journalists enables more authoritarian control and human rights abuses to the point where it's a trait of every recent authoritarian government I'm aware of.
  - haha9993 8y ago
    classic straw man argument. The immigrants in question are not ISIS and are not anti-america.
    - calvinbhai 8y ago
      Isn't that the argument the Trump administration is using? that it's possible for terrorists to sneak in along with the caravan?
dragonwriter 8y ago
> Based on what I see, it looks like the US Govt is keeping tabs on those persons (journalists) who are sympathetic to the cause of of a group of people (the caravans) intending to breach the country border. The caravans are lawful asylum seekers that are only crossing at non recognized points because the administration has taken active and dubiously legal efforts to forcibly prevent them from reaching and applying for asylum at regular ports of entry, going so far as to close ports if entry and fire chemical weapons across an international border for that purpose. Not that being sympathetic to them would be problematic even if that wasn't the case. > I'm a legal temp immigrant in the US No, you aren't. Immigrants are permanent. You can be a legal immigrant or a legal temporary worker or visitor, but you can't be a legal temporary immigrant.
- tropo 8y ago
  International treaties covering asylum seekers require that they apply for asylum in the first safe country. Mexico might not be the most wonderful place, but it is considered a safe country. (the government is not genocidal) It is therefore impossible for a legitimate asylum seeker in the US to have passed through Mexico.
  - dragonwriter 8y ago
    > Mexico might not be the most wonderful place, but it is considered a safe country. (the government is not genocidal) Even in the parts of the country superficially under control of the central government (the parts where the cartels don't openly operate marked patrol vehicles as if they were the government), the cartels operate with virtual impunity and frequently with active, high-level cooperation by the police and military (whole specialized units of which have gone over to the other side and become cartels), including the military at least cooperating in and covering up and possibly actually carrying out mass killings on behalf of the cartels. And this isn't just violence unrelated to the violence Central American asylum seekers are fleeing; that violence they are fleeing is in no small part due to deportation of violent criminals, often in gangs of US origin connected to international organized crime including the Mexican cartels, deported from the US, who have then extended the criminal networks of the already internationally-connected, US-origin gangs across Central America. The idea that Mexico is a safe country for those who have a reason to flee the violence in Central America is, well, not something that can be reconciled with the nature and source of the violence in Central America and the conditions in Mexico.

tdb7893 8y ago

Being sympathetic isn't a crime. Also covering things as a journalist not only isn't a crime but also is protected in many forms by the Constitution. Americans are very very very touchy about possible freedom of speech and freedom of the press violations. I'm not sure what crime these journalists are going to commit that makes us need to track them.

calvinbhai 8y ago
Curious: So, if for some reason, there are journalists that are creating content for groups/regimes that are anti-America (lets say ISIS, Assad, Ahmedinajad or Jong Un), would that journalist never been seen with any kind of suspicion in the US?
- tdb7893 8y ago
  The thing is that you really need some specific reason to be suspicious and being a journalist or activist isn't inherently suspicious. It's not that you can't be suspicious of journalists, you just need an actual reason and there really isn't a clear one here. Edit: People are also particularly touchy about this because suppression of activists and journalists enables more authoritarian control and human rights abuses to the point where it's a trait of every recent authoritarian government I'm aware of.
- haha9993 8y ago
  classic straw man argument. The immigrants in question are not ISIS and are not anti-america.
  - calvinbhai 8y ago
    Isn't that the argument the Trump administration is using? that it's possible for terrorists to sneak in along with the caravan?

dragonwriter 8y ago

> Based on what I see, it looks like the US Govt is keeping tabs on those persons (journalists) who are sympathetic to the cause of of a group of people (the caravans) intending to breach the country border. The caravans are lawful asylum seekers that are only crossing at non recognized points because the administration has taken active and dubiously legal efforts to forcibly prevent them from reaching and applying for asylum at regular ports of entry, going so far as to close ports if entry and fire chemical weapons across an international border for that purpose. Not that being sympathetic to them would be problematic even if that wasn't the case. > I'm a legal temp immigrant in the US No, you aren't. Immigrants are permanent. You can be a legal immigrant or a legal temporary worker or visitor, but you can't be a legal temporary immigrant.

tropo 8y ago
International treaties covering asylum seekers require that they apply for asylum in the first safe country. Mexico might not be the most wonderful place, but it is considered a safe country. (the government is not genocidal) It is therefore impossible for a legitimate asylum seeker in the US to have passed through Mexico.
- dragonwriter 8y ago
  > Mexico might not be the most wonderful place, but it is considered a safe country. (the government is not genocidal) Even in the parts of the country superficially under control of the central government (the parts where the cartels don't openly operate marked patrol vehicles as if they were the government), the cartels operate with virtual impunity and frequently with active, high-level cooperation by the police and military (whole specialized units of which have gone over to the other side and become cartels), including the military at least cooperating in and covering up and possibly actually carrying out mass killings on behalf of the cartels. And this isn't just violence unrelated to the violence Central American asylum seekers are fleeing; that violence they are fleeing is in no small part due to deportation of violent criminals, often in gangs of US origin connected to international organized crime including the Mexican cartels, deported from the US, who have then extended the criminal networks of the already internationally-connected, US-origin gangs across Central America. The idea that Mexico is a safe country for those who have a reason to flee the violence in Central America is, well, not something that can be reconciled with the nature and source of the violence in Central America and the conditions in Mexico.