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People going into college don't even get an expansive view of how debt works, and that's what they end college with the most of. I don't think that view is mis

People going into college don't even get an expansive view of how debt works, and that's what they end college with the most of. I don't think that view is missing, I think people do not value college like they claim they do if that premise (getting an expansive view of human knowledge) is the goal. Of course that's a great goal, but its also something that should have been happening all the way to adulthood (16-18 years of age), not something that happens in between the keggers and the classes you don't skip. If you could make that the median college experience, or college graduation contingent upon it, that would be nice. We cannot even make high school graduation in the USA contingent on being able to read.

vonmoltke 8y ago
> We cannot even make high school graduation in the USA contingent on being able to read. In what states?
- war1025 8y ago
  Just doing a quick search online, came across this article which suggests 19% of high school graduates are functionally illiterate. http://www.intellectualtakeout.org/blog/32-million-us-adults-are-functionally-illiterate-what-does-even-mean http://www.intellectualtakeout.org/blog/32-million-us-adults...
  - vonmoltke 8y ago
    That article does not do a good job of backing up its claims. The CNN article it references makes much weaker claim. The NALS report specifically states > While the literacy levels on each scale can be used to explore the range of literacy demands, these data do not reveal the types of literacy demands that are associated with particular contexts in this pluralistic society. That is, they do not enable us to say what specific level of prose, document, or quantitative skill is required to obtain, hold, or advance in a particular occupation, to manage a household, or to obtain legal or community services, for example. Nevertheless, the relationships among performance on the three scales and various social or economic indicators can provide valuable insights, and that is the goal of this report. So, contrary to the article's claim, the report does not define anyone as being "functionality illiterate". Furthermore, "functionality illiterate" is not the same as "can't read". It's a weaker standard. It's still a major problem, but that is not an excuse to conflate the two and make claims that high schools can't require graduates to know how to read at all.
    - war1025 8y ago
      I agree that it wasn't the most scholarly article. As an alternate, I just finished a week ago this book by the former Secretary of Education that talked about how poorly a lot of the schools in America prepare students for success in the world, and how often they have lowered their standards rather than working to teach kids better. He told a story at the beginning about how when he was in college he was going to tutor a star basketball player for a rough school in Chicago. He said the kid came from one of the rare for the area homes where both parents were present and working. He had a stable family life in an area where most kids didn't. His parents were doing their best to set their kids up for success. Anyway, the first thing the author did as part of tutoring was to give the kid some placement exams to see what he needed work on for getting into college. This was a kid who made the honor roll and was a junior in high school. The guy had a 4th grade reading level. The school system had been promoting these kids every year to the next grade even though they weren't learning anywhere near what they should be. So it may not be 20%, and it probably isn't in any of the better schools that people hanging around HackerNews are likely to have come from, but there are some really rough schools in America where kids are getting terrible educations. https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/37827417-how-schools-work https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/37827417-how-schools-wor...
- EpicEng 8y ago
  My wife is a teacher. You'd be surprised. Kids are pushed along to the next grade for valid and silly reasons alike. Sometimes it's a function of an unstable home life, but no one likes to admit that some people just aren't that bright. She spends countless hours tutoring her underperforming students and some... just don't get it.
  - vonmoltke 8y ago
    Pushed along, sure. To graduate, though, I had to pass a written test. The kids you describe who went to school with me just dropped out without a diploma at some point.

vonmoltke 8y ago

> We cannot even make high school graduation in the USA contingent on being able to read. In what states?

war1025 8y ago
Just doing a quick search online, came across this article which suggests 19% of high school graduates are functionally illiterate. http://www.intellectualtakeout.org/blog/32-million-us-adults-are-functionally-illiterate-what-does-even-mean http://www.intellectualtakeout.org/blog/32-million-us-adults...
- vonmoltke 8y ago
  That article does not do a good job of backing up its claims. The CNN article it references makes much weaker claim. The NALS report specifically states > While the literacy levels on each scale can be used to explore the range of literacy demands, these data do not reveal the types of literacy demands that are associated with particular contexts in this pluralistic society. That is, they do not enable us to say what specific level of prose, document, or quantitative skill is required to obtain, hold, or advance in a particular occupation, to manage a household, or to obtain legal or community services, for example. Nevertheless, the relationships among performance on the three scales and various social or economic indicators can provide valuable insights, and that is the goal of this report. So, contrary to the article's claim, the report does not define anyone as being "functionality illiterate". Furthermore, "functionality illiterate" is not the same as "can't read". It's a weaker standard. It's still a major problem, but that is not an excuse to conflate the two and make claims that high schools can't require graduates to know how to read at all.
  - war1025 8y ago
    I agree that it wasn't the most scholarly article. As an alternate, I just finished a week ago this book by the former Secretary of Education that talked about how poorly a lot of the schools in America prepare students for success in the world, and how often they have lowered their standards rather than working to teach kids better. He told a story at the beginning about how when he was in college he was going to tutor a star basketball player for a rough school in Chicago. He said the kid came from one of the rare for the area homes where both parents were present and working. He had a stable family life in an area where most kids didn't. His parents were doing their best to set their kids up for success. Anyway, the first thing the author did as part of tutoring was to give the kid some placement exams to see what he needed work on for getting into college. This was a kid who made the honor roll and was a junior in high school. The guy had a 4th grade reading level. The school system had been promoting these kids every year to the next grade even though they weren't learning anywhere near what they should be. So it may not be 20%, and it probably isn't in any of the better schools that people hanging around HackerNews are likely to have come from, but there are some really rough schools in America where kids are getting terrible educations. https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/37827417-how-schools-work https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/37827417-how-schools-wor...
EpicEng 8y ago
My wife is a teacher. You'd be surprised. Kids are pushed along to the next grade for valid and silly reasons alike. Sometimes it's a function of an unstable home life, but no one likes to admit that some people just aren't that bright. She spends countless hours tutoring her underperforming students and some... just don't get it.
- vonmoltke 8y ago
  Pushed along, sure. To graduate, though, I had to pass a written test. The kids you describe who went to school with me just dropped out without a diploma at some point.