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Range anxiety absolutely exists. It's the fear that you'll run out of power on your trip. It's the same anxiety you get when you're low on gas an unsure if y

Range anxiety absolutely exists. It's the fear that you'll run out of power on your trip. It's the same anxiety you get when you're low on gas an unsure if you can make it to a gas station. You do get over it. It takes a while to realize that you generally will have a full charge every day and you stop looking at the gauge.

phkahler 8y ago
>> Range anxiety absolutely exists. But it's still a problem with the vehicle. Go ahead, take your EV on a cross country trip. I worked on the Focus Electric and realized I couldn't even use it as a daily commuter without paying extra attention. Most days it would be more than adequate, but if for some reason I wanted to make a detour from my daily drive - like up to our motor manufacturing plant - it would not make it on the overnight charge. Granted, that car has fairly short range. A Tesla (or Rivian) should go all day in local driving, so they punt the range problem down the road to mostly long trips. But it's still a problem compared to ICE vehicles. My problem with the wording is this: The shortcomings of EVs rightly cause anxiety in people. But lets stop focusing on the anxiety in the humans and start talking about the issues with EVs. Until companies change that attitude, they'll make things like the Focus, Leaf, Volt. Yeah, I think the Volt was a mistake but some people love it and feel that it addressed the range issue nicely. It did address the issues head on, just not in a way that I like.
- Forbo 8y ago
  Why was the Volt a mistake? I was genuinely looking forward to purchasing one until they decided to discontinue it. It seems to me like series hybrids could be the fastest way to drastic reduction of emissions short of massive government intervention. Judging by the way things have gone with the EPA under Trump, I'm doubting that's going to be happening soon.
perl4ever 8y ago
I think there is a difference between gas and batteries in the uncertainty that you are equating. If my car always gets 25 mpg or more, and it's got a gallon left, I could have some uncertainty about how far it is to the gas station, or exactly how much fuel I have, but I'm confident that my remaining range is going to be very close to 25 mpg x gallons left. Summer or winter, it's not going to be that different. On the other hand, if I had an electric car that says I have 25 miles left, based on all my experience with batteries, I presume that is based on a complicated model that may be way off in accuracy with no warning. It also may decline in a very nonlinear and unexpected way. Particularly in extreme weather.
- jsight 8y ago
  Yeah, you just summed it up pretty well. In reality, my gas car varies from ~34 mpg to ~26 MPG depending upon its driving profile. That is ~30% variance. Everything that I have seen of the Model 3 indicates similar variance on your "25 miles left" scenario. The causes are different (eg, the Model 3 will not be affected by city driving to the same degree as a typical gas car), but the quantity of variation is very similar. Of course, in reality my gas car stops reporting a miles remaining # when it gets to ~20 miles, for these reasons as well. It turns out that my experience with gas cars is that its based on a non-complicated model that may be way off in accuracy with some warning. :) Interestingly, it also declines in nonlinear and unexpected ways sometimes, though I haven't correlated it to weather.
  - perl4ever 8y ago
    You start by endorsing my comment, but my point was how different batteries are from gas. Upside variation is not equivalent to downside variation. It seems to me like sophistry to say, well, it's tolerable for a battery to have 30% unexpected downside because a gas car has 30% upside when you go on the interstate (which would never be a surprise anyway). If I have a car that gets 26 mpg in "city" driving, then I feel secure that it will not get significantly less at the worst possible moment, unless there is a major engine problem.
    - jsight 8y ago
      I don't understand this "upside" variation vs "downside" variation. It seems like the same thing to me. My gas car gets stuck in traffic sometimes and will vary regardless of the roads. In fact, that variance described was on the exact same commute, due to differences in time of day, traffic, and weather. Often it gets over 30, sometimes well under it. It really isn't so different from electrics in practical terms.

phkahler 8y ago

>> Range anxiety absolutely exists. But it's still a problem with the vehicle. Go ahead, take your EV on a cross country trip. I worked on the Focus Electric and realized I couldn't even use it as a daily commuter without paying extra attention. Most days it would be more than adequate, but if for some reason I wanted to make a detour from my daily drive - like up to our motor manufacturing plant - it would not make it on the overnight charge. Granted, that car has fairly short range. A Tesla (or Rivian) should go all day in local driving, so they punt the range problem down the road to mostly long trips. But it's still a problem compared to ICE vehicles. My problem with the wording is this: The shortcomings of EVs rightly cause anxiety in people. But lets stop focusing on the anxiety in the humans and start talking about the issues with EVs. Until companies change that attitude, they'll make things like the Focus, Leaf, Volt. Yeah, I think the Volt was a mistake but some people love it and feel that it addressed the range issue nicely. It did address the issues head on, just not in a way that I like.

Forbo 8y ago
Why was the Volt a mistake? I was genuinely looking forward to purchasing one until they decided to discontinue it. It seems to me like series hybrids could be the fastest way to drastic reduction of emissions short of massive government intervention. Judging by the way things have gone with the EPA under Trump, I'm doubting that's going to be happening soon.

perl4ever 8y ago

I think there is a difference between gas and batteries in the uncertainty that you are equating. If my car always gets 25 mpg or more, and it's got a gallon left, I could have some uncertainty about how far it is to the gas station, or exactly how much fuel I have, but I'm confident that my remaining range is going to be very close to 25 mpg x gallons left. Summer or winter, it's not going to be that different. On the other hand, if I had an electric car that says I have 25 miles left, based on all my experience with batteries, I presume that is based on a complicated model that may be way off in accuracy with no warning. It also may decline in a very nonlinear and unexpected way. Particularly in extreme weather.

jsight 8y ago
Yeah, you just summed it up pretty well. In reality, my gas car varies from ~34 mpg to ~26 MPG depending upon its driving profile. That is ~30% variance. Everything that I have seen of the Model 3 indicates similar variance on your "25 miles left" scenario. The causes are different (eg, the Model 3 will not be affected by city driving to the same degree as a typical gas car), but the quantity of variation is very similar. Of course, in reality my gas car stops reporting a miles remaining # when it gets to ~20 miles, for these reasons as well. It turns out that my experience with gas cars is that its based on a non-complicated model that may be way off in accuracy with some warning. :) Interestingly, it also declines in nonlinear and unexpected ways sometimes, though I haven't correlated it to weather.
- perl4ever 8y ago
  You start by endorsing my comment, but my point was how different batteries are from gas. Upside variation is not equivalent to downside variation. It seems to me like sophistry to say, well, it's tolerable for a battery to have 30% unexpected downside because a gas car has 30% upside when you go on the interstate (which would never be a surprise anyway). If I have a car that gets 26 mpg in "city" driving, then I feel secure that it will not get significantly less at the worst possible moment, unless there is a major engine problem.
  - jsight 8y ago
    I don't understand this "upside" variation vs "downside" variation. It seems like the same thing to me. My gas car gets stuck in traffic sometimes and will vary regardless of the roads. In fact, that variance described was on the exact same commute, due to differences in time of day, traffic, and weather. Often it gets over 30, sometimes well under it. It really isn't so different from electrics in practical terms.