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I worked at FB for three years as a software engineer. The people I worked with basically believed: 1) The core product is good and useful to people/society 2

I worked at FB for three years as a software engineer. The people I worked with basically believed: 1) The core product is good and useful to people/society 2) Most of the negative articles about Facebook are based on some piece of truth but go out of their way to make things seem worse and more sinister than they really are 3) Zuck generally wants to do the right thing, but of course makes mistakes 4) Yes the company does bad things sometimes, but not significantly worse than Google or Amazon (which are the main places many FB employees would consider working if they left)

simonebrunozzi 8y ago
And what did you believe, or currently do?
- badfrog 8y ago
  Basically the same. My reasons for leaving were not related to company/product ethics.
iandanforth 8y ago
Tangential question, do you consider yourself an environmentalist? For example have you reduced your carbon output on principle in some way?
- badfrog 8y ago
  What's the relation?
warp_factor 8y ago
I disagree with all of those, but more specifically with >> 1) The core product is good and useful to people/society. Definitely not. If you had to put a numerical value on Facebook impact on society, it would be extremely negative I think. You grab attention of weak users, that end up spending so much time on your platform doing nothing instead of contributing in things that would benefit society. You create an illusion that everyone got a beautiful life, pushing some people on the verge to suicide//depression. And maybe the worst of all, you block free speech based on whatever private criterias you decide and you allow for mass brain washing by pushing ideas on your newsfeed. The only positive side is your utility of connecting people which already perfectly existed before. The only reason why you get away with all of this is because it is so difficult to put an actual number on those.
- badfrog 8y ago
  > The only reason why you get away with all of this is because it is so difficult to put an actual number on those. It's equally difficult to put numbers on the positive effects, which can be anything from enjoying a joke to organizing a protest of an oppressive government to preventing a suicide.
  - russh 8y ago
    Or simply live casting the torture of a mentally challenged individual.
- deanmoriarty 8y ago
  As I said in a previous comment, I'd be curious if this "wasting time instead of contributing to society" applies also to other entertainment companies that quite literally waste thousands of hours a year of the average weak person, such as Netflix, which instead is typically seen as providing very positive value to society.
  - badfrog 8y ago
    Yeah, it kind of implies that you should spend 100% of your waking time being "productive", which is not realistic. Everybody needs time to recharge, and depending on your personality, that can be anything from going to a bar with friends, to playing recreational sports, to watching TV, to scrolling through the internet.
    - deanmoriarty 8y ago
      Yeah. I ask this because I want to be able to understand the personality of whomever is writing these comments, before deciding if I should consider or simply dismiss them. If the person will just say "year, clearly Netflix is just as negative for society", then that will be enough for me to completely dismiss this person's opinions on the entire matter, since Netflix, just as Facebook, has provided me with massive positive value, even if, at times, it made me jealous of seeing the life of other people as presented in some TV shows, again just as Facebook.
hutzlibu 8y ago
"3) Zuck generally wants to do the right thing, but of course makes mistakes" Yeah, he does not mistakes like openly calling his users dumb fxxxx anymore. https://www.businessinsider.com/well-these-new-zuckerberg-ims-wont-help-facebooks-privacy-problems-2010-5?IR=T https://www.businessinsider.com/well-these-new-zuckerberg-im... But I have zero indications to believe, that he changed his believes in any way. Sad truth is, that he might be right. Mainstream humanity seems pretty stupid, to trust all their sensitive data to strangers who apparently have no respect for them. Does not make Zuckerberg a nice person, though.

simonebrunozzi 8y ago

And what did you believe, or currently do?

badfrog 8y ago
Basically the same. My reasons for leaving were not related to company/product ethics.

iandanforth 8y ago

Tangential question, do you consider yourself an environmentalist? For example have you reduced your carbon output on principle in some way?

badfrog 8y ago
What's the relation?

warp_factor 8y ago

I disagree with all of those, but more specifically with >> 1) The core product is good and useful to people/society. Definitely not. If you had to put a numerical value on Facebook impact on society, it would be extremely negative I think. You grab attention of weak users, that end up spending so much time on your platform doing nothing instead of contributing in things that would benefit society. You create an illusion that everyone got a beautiful life, pushing some people on the verge to suicide//depression. And maybe the worst of all, you block free speech based on whatever private criterias you decide and you allow for mass brain washing by pushing ideas on your newsfeed. The only positive side is your utility of connecting people which already perfectly existed before. The only reason why you get away with all of this is because it is so difficult to put an actual number on those.

badfrog 8y ago
> The only reason why you get away with all of this is because it is so difficult to put an actual number on those. It's equally difficult to put numbers on the positive effects, which can be anything from enjoying a joke to organizing a protest of an oppressive government to preventing a suicide.
- russh 8y ago
  Or simply live casting the torture of a mentally challenged individual.
deanmoriarty 8y ago
As I said in a previous comment, I'd be curious if this "wasting time instead of contributing to society" applies also to other entertainment companies that quite literally waste thousands of hours a year of the average weak person, such as Netflix, which instead is typically seen as providing very positive value to society.
- badfrog 8y ago
  Yeah, it kind of implies that you should spend 100% of your waking time being "productive", which is not realistic. Everybody needs time to recharge, and depending on your personality, that can be anything from going to a bar with friends, to playing recreational sports, to watching TV, to scrolling through the internet.
  - deanmoriarty 8y ago
    Yeah. I ask this because I want to be able to understand the personality of whomever is writing these comments, before deciding if I should consider or simply dismiss them. If the person will just say "year, clearly Netflix is just as negative for society", then that will be enough for me to completely dismiss this person's opinions on the entire matter, since Netflix, just as Facebook, has provided me with massive positive value, even if, at times, it made me jealous of seeing the life of other people as presented in some TV shows, again just as Facebook.

hutzlibu 8y ago

"3) Zuck generally wants to do the right thing, but of course makes mistakes" Yeah, he does not mistakes like openly calling his users dumb fxxxx anymore. https://www.businessinsider.com/well-these-new-zuckerberg-ims-wont-help-facebooks-privacy-problems-2010-5?IR=T https://www.businessinsider.com/well-these-new-zuckerberg-im... But I have zero indications to believe, that he changed his believes in any way. Sad truth is, that he might be right. Mainstream humanity seems pretty stupid, to trust all their sensitive data to strangers who apparently have no respect for them. Does not make Zuckerberg a nice person, though.