4 ms·

I don't see the complexity here. They pay competitive salaries and people don't give a fuck about what FB does and accept the gig. Simple. Being able to say: "

by taytus 8y ago

I don't see the complexity here. They pay competitive salaries and people don't give a fuck about what FB does and accept the gig. Simple. Being able to say: "No, I don't work here because of principles" is something really nice but not everyone can afford to do.

JeremyBanks 8y ago
99% of their engineers could afford to do the right thing. They have plenty of alternatives that pay very well, but they'd rather sell their soul for a few more luxuries. They are choosing to be bad people.
- the_cat_kittles 8y ago
  this is right. to think you have no choice means you are part of the problem
  - taytus 8y ago
    You are showing your privilege.
    - TheLegace 8y ago
      You are showing your entitlement.
    - the_cat_kittles 8y ago
      please explain to me how you have no choice when the vast majority of people on earth do not work for facebook
- weej 8y ago
  "Bad people" feels a little trite. What about individuals who feel they are truly joining to try to make a difference for the better in improving the culture, security, data privacy, or overall business? Too altruistic or is that part of the story?
  - JKCalhoun 8y ago
    I like your optimism, but, again with all the bad PR, how could someone join FB and believe they are improving the culture? Unless they want to join to try to change it from the inside?
- ascendantlogic 8y ago
  You're discovering the dirty secret that a lot of people generally don't care about doing the right thing when doing the wrong thing is so lucrative. People will talk a big game but shove a pile of cash in their face and things get complicated fast.
  - portal_narlish 8y ago
    Capitalism 101
- PhoenixReborn 8y ago
  This view seems somewhat reductionist, no? I don't work at FB and never have, but I could easily see a case for working on projects that contribute back to the developer community (e.g. React). These wouldn't be directly related to user tracking/privacy violations and they might be selling their souls, but are contributing something useful to the world. In this case, what do you think would step up to fill the void in OSS, and what do you think is the best move for one of those developers?
- rifung 8y ago
  I don't work at FB but I don't agree with this. Is it really better in the long run that people who disagree with privacy intrusions leave? I'd argue that it's better they stay and are part of the conversation to improve things. If all that's left at FB are people who are solely motivated my greed, and I am sure there are certainly enough of those people to run FB, isn't this only worse for the users?
untog 8y ago
> Being able to say: "No, I don't work here because of principles" is something really nice but not everyone can afford to do. I'd question that. FB undoubtedly pays very well and probably better than almost all competitors, but at the same time most FB engineers could almost certainly take work somewhere else with a slightly lower (but objectively still fantastic) salary and still continue to live a very comfortable life. I'd be interested to hear other reasons why people continue to work at FB, but "I can't afford not to" feels dubious to me.
- abakker 8y ago
  Getting paid is a pretty powerful motivator. Maybe you can afford not to, maybe others don’t want to afford not to. Salaries are good, the experience is good, job hunting sucks.
  - ForHackernews 8y ago
    Maybe we should stop considering the experience "good"? I know I'd look slightly askance at a resume that was full of tobacco companies. Maybe we should feel the same way about surveillance-tech companies?
- rifung 8y ago
  > I'd question that. FB undoubtedly pays very well and probably better than almost all competitors, but at the same time most FB engineers could almost certainly take work somewhere else with a slightly lower (but objectively still fantastic) salary and still continue to live a very comfortable life. I think what you're saying is true for people who already work at FB, but I think you underestimate how much of a boost working at FB is for people who are deciding whether to take an offer. Having dropped out of school and only worked at unknown startups, I had previously found it very hard to even get interviews but after I worked at AWS suddenly people were interested in hiring me. I am really grateful that I had the opportunity to work there. When I was at AWS I often asked people how they felt about working there and by far the most common response was it wasn't the greatest but it would really help their resumes. Obviously anecdotal but it leads me to think my situation was not uncommon.
msftie 8y ago
I have personally told them this, and my rationalization for "closing the door" so to speak is that there is (hopefully) no future reality in which Facebook is the only place that I am getting an employment offer that I'd accept. If I can get an offer from Facebook, I can almost certainly get an offer somewhere else.
peruvian 8y ago
Teams like the React team get paid well, are "separated" from the actual product, and work on something that means a lot to them.

by taytus 8y ago

JeremyBanks 8y ago

99% of their engineers could afford to do the right thing. They have plenty of alternatives that pay very well, but they'd rather sell their soul for a few more luxuries. They are choosing to be bad people.

the_cat_kittles 8y ago
this is right. to think you have no choice means you are part of the problem
- taytus 8y ago
  You are showing your privilege.
  - TheLegace 8y ago
    You are showing your entitlement.
  - the_cat_kittles 8y ago
    please explain to me how you have no choice when the vast majority of people on earth do not work for facebook
weej 8y ago
"Bad people" feels a little trite. What about individuals who feel they are truly joining to try to make a difference for the better in improving the culture, security, data privacy, or overall business? Too altruistic or is that part of the story?
- JKCalhoun 8y ago
  I like your optimism, but, again with all the bad PR, how could someone join FB and believe they are improving the culture? Unless they want to join to try to change it from the inside?
ascendantlogic 8y ago
You're discovering the dirty secret that a lot of people generally don't care about doing the right thing when doing the wrong thing is so lucrative. People will talk a big game but shove a pile of cash in their face and things get complicated fast.
- portal_narlish 8y ago
  Capitalism 101
PhoenixReborn 8y ago
This view seems somewhat reductionist, no? I don't work at FB and never have, but I could easily see a case for working on projects that contribute back to the developer community (e.g. React). These wouldn't be directly related to user tracking/privacy violations and they might be selling their souls, but are contributing something useful to the world. In this case, what do you think would step up to fill the void in OSS, and what do you think is the best move for one of those developers?
rifung 8y ago
I don't work at FB but I don't agree with this. Is it really better in the long run that people who disagree with privacy intrusions leave? I'd argue that it's better they stay and are part of the conversation to improve things. If all that's left at FB are people who are solely motivated my greed, and I am sure there are certainly enough of those people to run FB, isn't this only worse for the users?

untog 8y ago

> Being able to say: "No, I don't work here because of principles" is something really nice but not everyone can afford to do. I'd question that. FB undoubtedly pays very well and probably better than almost all competitors, but at the same time most FB engineers could almost certainly take work somewhere else with a slightly lower (but objectively still fantastic) salary and still continue to live a very comfortable life. I'd be interested to hear other reasons why people continue to work at FB, but "I can't afford not to" feels dubious to me.

abakker 8y ago
Getting paid is a pretty powerful motivator. Maybe you can afford not to, maybe others don’t want to afford not to. Salaries are good, the experience is good, job hunting sucks.
- ForHackernews 8y ago
  Maybe we should stop considering the experience "good"? I know I'd look slightly askance at a resume that was full of tobacco companies. Maybe we should feel the same way about surveillance-tech companies?
rifung 8y ago
> I'd question that. FB undoubtedly pays very well and probably better than almost all competitors, but at the same time most FB engineers could almost certainly take work somewhere else with a slightly lower (but objectively still fantastic) salary and still continue to live a very comfortable life. I think what you're saying is true for people who already work at FB, but I think you underestimate how much of a boost working at FB is for people who are deciding whether to take an offer. Having dropped out of school and only worked at unknown startups, I had previously found it very hard to even get interviews but after I worked at AWS suddenly people were interested in hiring me. I am really grateful that I had the opportunity to work there. When I was at AWS I often asked people how they felt about working there and by far the most common response was it wasn't the greatest but it would really help their resumes. Obviously anecdotal but it leads me to think my situation was not uncommon.

msftie 8y ago

I have personally told them this, and my rationalization for "closing the door" so to speak is that there is (hopefully) no future reality in which Facebook is the only place that I am getting an employment offer that I'd accept. If I can get an offer from Facebook, I can almost certainly get an offer somewhere else.

peruvian 8y ago

Teams like the React team get paid well, are "separated" from the actual product, and work on something that means a lot to them.