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these ideas aren't good or bad in this way really. only in their execution we find that the integrity of humans is not developed enough for these kinds of serv

these ideas aren't good or bad in this way really. only in their execution we find that the integrity of humans is not developed enough for these kinds of services or capabilities. problem is that with tracking, people on the tracking side become to greedy for profit, and without tracking / censorship, then the people on the user side become vile and corrupt suddenly :D. either way there will be people enjoying it and people hating it at the same time. there's no pleasing some :D in any case , and really, maybe we should stop trying to do so, and just get on with more useful stuff than debating everlasting debates. in the end it's more philosophical problem than anything, and how useful are those to debate...(except to people who enjoy that of course!) are we in a simulation, or not? no way to prove it, no impact even if it would be, so why try to get the whole of internet users involved and distracted with it. we can go back and see, that then, it will probably just be people who like to discuss these things who are doing so, and they will always do so. is it immoral or wrong to make a profit within a capitalist system? Or is it immoral or wrong to expect someone to change their ways or return your investment just because you didn't pay attention and paid for something you didn't want?? example of facebook user mentality i saw in some drunk at a station: - drunk buys a paper from a bum - bum gives paper for 50 cents - drunk gets mad and attacks bum because the paper is a day old. really, that's the privacy debate in a nutshell.

rhizome 8y ago
these ideas aren't good or bad in this way really. only in their execution we find that the integrity of humans is not developed enough for these kinds of services or capabilities. Yes, things that don't exist can't be good or bad, and neither can things be good or bad without people. Once the thing exists at the same time that humans exist, we get opinions on good and bad. One way of deciding whether something is good or bad is whether it works to benefit your life, vs. making things worse. You can call this a philosophical problem if you want, since pretty much anything can be described the same way, but realizing that FB people are greedy fucks when it comes to our daily datapoints over the course of our entire lives (they hope) is not a matter of theory. I'm not sure how you skated from FB's greed to "people become vile and corrupt when they aren't tracked by FB," though. is it immoral or wrong to make a profit within a capitalist system? Sometimes, and sometimes those profits are specifically illegal, with penalties at the level of "decades in prison." We the people get to decide (more or less) what acts qualify for those penalties, and there is no universal truth to which these penalties must be compared. We could put all board members of companies that leak data in prison, calculated at one day for every person's data that was exfiltrated. Strict liability. That is the privacy debate in a nutshell.
JohnFen 8y ago
I think the essence of the privacy problem is even simpler -- it's a question of agency. I have little choice about whether or not I'm going to be spied on by Facebook, Google, etc. That's the problem. If I could engage in some sort of meaningful informed consent (if I consent to data collection, then it isn't spying), that would resolve 90% of the philosophical issues. But I can't.

rhizome 8y ago

these ideas aren't good or bad in this way really. only in their execution we find that the integrity of humans is not developed enough for these kinds of services or capabilities. Yes, things that don't exist can't be good or bad, and neither can things be good or bad without people. Once the thing exists at the same time that humans exist, we get opinions on good and bad. One way of deciding whether something is good or bad is whether it works to benefit your life, vs. making things worse. You can call this a philosophical problem if you want, since pretty much anything can be described the same way, but realizing that FB people are greedy fucks when it comes to our daily datapoints over the course of our entire lives (they hope) is not a matter of theory. I'm not sure how you skated from FB's greed to "people become vile and corrupt when they aren't tracked by FB," though. is it immoral or wrong to make a profit within a capitalist system? Sometimes, and sometimes those profits are specifically illegal, with penalties at the level of "decades in prison." We the people get to decide (more or less) what acts qualify for those penalties, and there is no universal truth to which these penalties must be compared. We could put all board members of companies that leak data in prison, calculated at one day for every person's data that was exfiltrated. Strict liability. That is the privacy debate in a nutshell.

JohnFen 8y ago

I think the essence of the privacy problem is even simpler -- it's a question of agency. I have little choice about whether or not I'm going to be spied on by Facebook, Google, etc. That's the problem. If I could engage in some sort of meaningful informed consent (if I consent to data collection, then it isn't spying), that would resolve 90% of the philosophical issues. But I can't.