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I've earned a lot of ill-will on Hacker News by stating the obvious. The kind of behavior described in this article bothers me for several reasons, and I've pos

I've earned a lot of ill-will on Hacker News by stating the obvious. The kind of behavior described in this article bothers me for several reasons, and I've posted plenty already about most of them, but one that doesn't get talked about enough is that Y Combinator and Facebook are in business together now. (See http://venturebeat.com/2010/08/26/facebook-working-with-y-combinator-to-support-social-startups/. http://venturebeat.com/2010/08/26/facebook-working-with-y-co...) Facebook, Inc. has in the past taken, and appears to still be taking, a number of actions designed to crush entrepreneurship. I would think that Y Combinator would do anything but support such radical and destructive behavior. My note to Paul Graham expressing this sentiment several months ago remains unanswered.

grovulent 16y ago
Not sure why you'd want to draw PG into a political shit fight... Besides - wouldn't a more hacker thing to do be to fund the folks (or be the folks) that build the next take down? All empires fall - the cool thing about modern times is that they seem to fall faster and faster...
- thinkcomp 16y ago
  I'm not looking for a fight. I'm looking for an explanation. The odds of success as an entrepreneur are low enough without influential investors implicitly blessing those who are notorious for their unique interpretations of right and wrong.
  - grovulent 16y ago
    Nah course not, you just want someone else to get in one.
    - panacea 16y ago
      Simmer down gentleman. This really isn't the place for "flame-on".
- lhnz 16y ago
  He is responsible for YC. Who else would you mention by name when arguing this point?
- samtp 16y ago
  Its not a 'political shit fight'. There are some consequences to being a startup incubator, and partnering with a company that has a record of using outside innovations for its own benefit.
  - grovulent 16y ago
    Yeah - I reject that. I don't agree with facebook's approach. So I don't use it. But this isn't black or white stuff... this is grey area that lots of people have different opinions about. By all means critique facebook - by all means critique those who have partnered with facebook. But demanding that someone else must come in on the fight on your side or your going to denounce them publicly on their site, is a pretty horrible - either your with us, or your against us - sort of mentality. As far as I'm aware, YC itself is not funding any companies with similar sorts of ethic breaches. So why not take the fight to where it needs to be fought?
drusenko 16y ago
YC has "partnered" with Facebook only as much as it benefits YC companies tremendously to have inside access and help from the largest and most dominant social network. Partnering with them can hardly be construed as an endorsement of everything Facebook does. Also, it's only fair to disclose that you have a very public history with Facebook and would have plenty of reasons to lobby this criticism: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Facebook#Aaron_Greenspan_and_houseSYSTEM http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Facebook#Aaron_Gre...
- thinkcomp 16y ago
  First, every time I make such a disclaimer about something that you're saying is already "very public" I'm criticized for not being quiet about my prior involvement, but if you think that needed to be clarified, that's fine. Either way, in this case my role is completely immaterial. I said that I've written about this topic in the past, so anyone can click on my username and see. My real name is clearly in my profile for anyone to look up. Yours isn't, and I don't see it on your web site, either. And as the CEO of a Y Combinator-backed company, you might want to disclose that you are the beneficiary of the inside access you reference. Second, call me crazy, but it's an official partnership from what has been reported, not a "partnership." Third, partnership is an endorsement, plain and simple. You don't partner with people you don't support; you partner with ones you do.
  - lisper 16y ago
    > partnership is an endorsement Word.
  - gojomo 16y ago
    partnership is an endorsement, plain and simple Not at all. I'll continue the Facebook ⟺ Communist China comparison of my other comment – which ought to demonstrate I'm not coming at this issue with total sympathy for Facebook. A policy of engagement means only, "we're pragmatic enough to work together on matters of common benefit", not "we endorse everything about our partner". A lot of positive-sum interactions would be lost, and society would be a lot less civil, if we had to shun partnering with anyone we weren't ready to 'endorse'. That's the mindset of a crusader rather than a businessperson.

grovulent 16y ago

Not sure why you'd want to draw PG into a political shit fight... Besides - wouldn't a more hacker thing to do be to fund the folks (or be the folks) that build the next take down? All empires fall - the cool thing about modern times is that they seem to fall faster and faster...

thinkcomp 16y ago
I'm not looking for a fight. I'm looking for an explanation. The odds of success as an entrepreneur are low enough without influential investors implicitly blessing those who are notorious for their unique interpretations of right and wrong.
- grovulent 16y ago
  Nah course not, you just want someone else to get in one.
  - panacea 16y ago
    Simmer down gentleman. This really isn't the place for "flame-on".
lhnz 16y ago
He is responsible for YC. Who else would you mention by name when arguing this point?
samtp 16y ago
Its not a 'political shit fight'. There are some consequences to being a startup incubator, and partnering with a company that has a record of using outside innovations for its own benefit.
- grovulent 16y ago
  Yeah - I reject that. I don't agree with facebook's approach. So I don't use it. But this isn't black or white stuff... this is grey area that lots of people have different opinions about. By all means critique facebook - by all means critique those who have partnered with facebook. But demanding that someone else must come in on the fight on your side or your going to denounce them publicly on their site, is a pretty horrible - either your with us, or your against us - sort of mentality. As far as I'm aware, YC itself is not funding any companies with similar sorts of ethic breaches. So why not take the fight to where it needs to be fought?

drusenko 16y ago

YC has "partnered" with Facebook only as much as it benefits YC companies tremendously to have inside access and help from the largest and most dominant social network. Partnering with them can hardly be construed as an endorsement of everything Facebook does. Also, it's only fair to disclose that you have a very public history with Facebook and would have plenty of reasons to lobby this criticism: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Facebook#Aaron_Greenspan_and_houseSYSTEM http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Facebook#Aaron_Gre...

thinkcomp 16y ago
First, every time I make such a disclaimer about something that you're saying is already "very public" I'm criticized for not being quiet about my prior involvement, but if you think that needed to be clarified, that's fine. Either way, in this case my role is completely immaterial. I said that I've written about this topic in the past, so anyone can click on my username and see. My real name is clearly in my profile for anyone to look up. Yours isn't, and I don't see it on your web site, either. And as the CEO of a Y Combinator-backed company, you might want to disclose that you are the beneficiary of the inside access you reference. Second, call me crazy, but it's an official partnership from what has been reported, not a "partnership." Third, partnership is an endorsement, plain and simple. You don't partner with people you don't support; you partner with ones you do.
- lisper 16y ago
  > partnership is an endorsement Word.
- gojomo 16y ago
  partnership is an endorsement, plain and simple Not at all. I'll continue the Facebook ⟺ Communist China comparison of my other comment – which ought to demonstrate I'm not coming at this issue with total sympathy for Facebook. A policy of engagement means only, "we're pragmatic enough to work together on matters of common benefit", not "we endorse everything about our partner". A lot of positive-sum interactions would be lost, and society would be a lot less civil, if we had to shun partnering with anyone we weren't ready to 'endorse'. That's the mindset of a crusader rather than a businessperson.