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And I bet you $10k that mostly 10x programmers work on the code base. In fact, I've never seen an average Joe taking interest in Lisp, let alone learning it to

And I bet you $10k that mostly 10x programmers work on the code base. In fact, I've never seen an average Joe taking interest in Lisp, let alone learning it to the point of making a living with it. And there is a limited pool of that. We, humans, also have work to do.

lispm 8y ago
> I've never seen an average Joe taking interest in Lisp, let alone learning it to the point of making a living with it. Average Joe and Susi have been for 3+ decades nicely programming lots of extensions to AutoCAD and its various clones in Lisp. Generally I agree that Lisp programming is a bit more challenging due to the slight mathematical nature (lambda, ...), code as data and meta-programming. I don't think that one needs to be a 10x programmer to use Lisp - many of those 10x programmers are not programming in Lisp, since the 10x programmer gets hired because he/she might be able to cope with enterprise Java architectures. Since Lisp is a programmer amplifier, you might think that these Lisp users are 10x programmers, when in fact they are not. But there are domains where people are using Lisp, who are not focused on programming. For example there are various Lisp-based music apps + literature which are used by composers. Example: https://opusmodus.com https://opusmodus.com
- vram22 8y ago
  >Average Joe and Susi have been for 3+ decades nicely programming lots of extensions to AutoCAD and its various clones in Lisp. Ha ha, I read somewhere that years ago, in some org or the other, Emacs Lisp was programmed by secretaries to help them achieve their routine tasks. Apparently they were not told that it was "too difficult for them" :)
  - ACE_Recliner 8y ago
    Bit late, but it was Multics Emacs and the language they were writing in was Maclisp.
- emmanueloga_ 8y ago
  Wow this opus modus tool looks super polished. I'd not mind paying for it, if it ran on windows! I've heard about other tools like this before ([1] for composition, [2] for synthesis, [3] for mind-blowing :-p) but somehow never heard about opus modus before. * Where did you learn about it? * Are there other similar prog-lang music production tools with similar level of polish? * Any cross-platform / Windows supported tools? -- unfortunately opus modus only runs on macs :-( 1: https://github.com/ctford/leipzig https://github.com/ctford/leipzig 2: https://github.com/overtone/overtone https://github.com/overtone/overtone 3: https://extemporelang.github.io/ https://extemporelang.github.io/
  - lispm 8y ago
    There are a bunch of other tools written in Lisp or Scheme: OpenMusic, PWGL, Symbolic Composer (no longer available it seems), ScoreCloud, Common Music, Common Lisp Music, ... Opusmodus was supposed to have a Windows version in 'the future', but I don't know what plans are currently.
  - 4thaccount 8y ago
    Opus modus is listed as a lisp success story on a common lisp website somewhere.

lispm 8y ago

> I've never seen an average Joe taking interest in Lisp, let alone learning it to the point of making a living with it. Average Joe and Susi have been for 3+ decades nicely programming lots of extensions to AutoCAD and its various clones in Lisp. Generally I agree that Lisp programming is a bit more challenging due to the slight mathematical nature (lambda, ...), code as data and meta-programming. I don't think that one needs to be a 10x programmer to use Lisp - many of those 10x programmers are not programming in Lisp, since the 10x programmer gets hired because he/she might be able to cope with enterprise Java architectures. Since Lisp is a programmer amplifier, you might think that these Lisp users are 10x programmers, when in fact they are not. But there are domains where people are using Lisp, who are not focused on programming. For example there are various Lisp-based music apps + literature which are used by composers. Example: https://opusmodus.com https://opusmodus.com

vram22 8y ago
>Average Joe and Susi have been for 3+ decades nicely programming lots of extensions to AutoCAD and its various clones in Lisp. Ha ha, I read somewhere that years ago, in some org or the other, Emacs Lisp was programmed by secretaries to help them achieve their routine tasks. Apparently they were not told that it was "too difficult for them" :)
- ACE_Recliner 8y ago
  Bit late, but it was Multics Emacs and the language they were writing in was Maclisp.
emmanueloga_ 8y ago
Wow this opus modus tool looks super polished. I'd not mind paying for it, if it ran on windows! I've heard about other tools like this before ([1] for composition, [2] for synthesis, [3] for mind-blowing :-p) but somehow never heard about opus modus before. * Where did you learn about it? * Are there other similar prog-lang music production tools with similar level of polish? * Any cross-platform / Windows supported tools? -- unfortunately opus modus only runs on macs :-( 1: https://github.com/ctford/leipzig https://github.com/ctford/leipzig 2: https://github.com/overtone/overtone https://github.com/overtone/overtone 3: https://extemporelang.github.io/ https://extemporelang.github.io/
- lispm 8y ago
  There are a bunch of other tools written in Lisp or Scheme: OpenMusic, PWGL, Symbolic Composer (no longer available it seems), ScoreCloud, Common Music, Common Lisp Music, ... Opusmodus was supposed to have a Windows version in 'the future', but I don't know what plans are currently.
- 4thaccount 8y ago
  Opus modus is listed as a lisp success story on a common lisp website somewhere.