5 ms·

There's a genuine risk in this case, the car was flooded, and so were the batteries. Who knows if the frame are still in place or if the wires are still connect

by mtw 8y ago

There's a genuine risk in this case, the car was flooded, and so were the batteries. Who knows if the frame are still in place or if the wires are still connected to the right place. Imagine a "mechanic" who duct-tapes it, then charge it, the person can put everything on fire and injure people. Then others will sue Tesla. I haven't heard of mechanic setting regular cars on fire when repairing them though. I understand the right of owners to repair their propriety, especially in a time where we consume too much stuff, but a Tesla is just to dangerous for people to work with.

rimliu 8y ago
One of the popular modifications done here is modifying petrol engines to be able to run on natural gas. And if you see some news about a car catching fire on the street you can bet it had this modification done.
onli 8y ago
If there is a right to repair all of this does not matter. Tesla has - or should have - the obligation to sell the parts, and probably to also inform of the risks. A bad repair is not on tesla, it's on the mechanic doing the work.
- UnpossibleJim 8y ago
  That has yet to be decided. That's the problem. In a reasonable society, of course, no one would question this. However, while driving down the road, a shoddy repair has an effect on another system which interferes with the lane change sensor and allows you to drift into a semi while checking you iPhone, that is Tesla's fault (or so you'll argue in court). Things get into grey areas quickly. Also, if you have a lawyer that's worth his/her salt, they'll try to suppress the fact that you had a repair on an unrelated system by an unlicensed shop.
  - thisisit 8y ago
    I am curious. So you are saying there have been no cases filed in last 50 years where car manufacturers have sold parts but mechanic repairs were shoddy causing an accident?
    - martin_a 8y ago
      Well, that would be easy to find out and fix. With the degree of autonomy that cars like Tesla come with, there are whole new battlefields which courts will have to figure out first.
  - lurker458 8y ago
    This already has been decided, and the decision was against the automakers trying to hold a monopoly on aftermarket repairs. They're not allowed to restrict parts or knowledge from third party mechanics.
MisterTea 8y ago
> I haven't heard of mechanic setting regular cars on fire when repairing them though. You clearly haven't been around many repair shops or performed your own auto maintenance. It's not that hard and does happen from time to time. Another thing to think about is how many times have I heard of stories where a mechanic or oil change tech forgets to tighten something, oil or fuel leaks, drips onto the hot exhaust manifold and starts an engine fire... while driving.
- dsfyu404ed 8y ago
  >Another thing to think about is how many times have I heard of stories where a mechanic or oil change tech forgets to tighten something, oil or fuel leaks, drips onto the hot exhaust manifold and starts an engine fire... while driving. The properties that make engine oil last thousands of miles without breaking down in the conditions you find inside an engine also make it very hard to ignite if not mixed with something more flammable (trust me, I've tried, it won't stay lit on its own). Fluid based vehicle fires are usually the result of transmission fluid or power steering fluid which are more flammable. Fuel based fires are pretty rare (for how flammable gasoline is) because safety standards all but require OEMs to over-build the fuel systems. Also due to the nature of engine designs (you kind of need the exhaust ports on the head so the manifold goes somewhere therabouts) it's quite rare to have a situation where it's possible for an engine oil leak to reach exhaust system parts in any appreciable volume. Remember, if you're losing that much oil the car will likely stop for other reasons long before it catches fire.
  - acranox 8y ago
    It can, however, create so much smoke, that you won't be able to see much in front of you as the smoke pours out from under the hood, and leaves an oily film all over your windscreen.
- monkeynotes 8y ago
  My brake callipers pinched and caused a fire, a bone-headed mechanic or DIYer could cause this problem with a bad brake job. There are so many, many ways a car can go wrong and kill someone, battery-tech or otherwise.
MrFoof 8y ago
As others have stated, this is irrelevant. There are plenty of ways to get cars with gasoline engines to catch fire, and any attempts to sue every other manufacturer over the poor work of shade-tree mechanics is already something that has been dealt with for decades. Moreover there are other manufacturers that are long as annoying to deal with as Tesla, particularly exotics -- they're just that, annoying -- that do things by the book, no worse than any certified manufacturer mechanic. Hell, some independents are invaluable. My personal mechanic has had to have video calls with Porsche Classic (in Stuttgart) to tell them how Porsche badly did work (at great expense) on cars like the 959, that he then had to do right, because Porsche's official Classic restoration shop effed it up. He's functionally restoring lost knowledge at Porsche because the domain knowledge of those cars was lost -- and you'll find independent mechanics for Ferrari, Lamborghini, Aston Martin, McLaren, etc. that are also equally invaluable to keep classics running and dead reliable, and helping the manufacturers out by providing training, and ensuring there's a (very profitable) customer base with an interest for the old metal. I buy and repair/flip lots of popular used commodity cars -- including hybrids -- as a hobby. Hybrids are increasingly popular for me because there's demand, and most mechanics haven't bothered with them yet, so it's a pretty easy $1800 - $2500 to turn around a Prius that needed a rebuilt battery from a reliable battery re-manufacturer that stands by 6-year warranties on their battery packs. I've met Rich a few times at car shows. He's not a knucklehead, and Teslas aren't rocket surgery. Those battery packs are a different beast than the 40-50kg packs in a hybrid, but if you can remove a rear subframe with the engine, transaxle and rear suspension from a mid-or-rear engine sports car with a 6-to-12 cylinder, you're ready for a Tesla battery pack replacement.
- geon 8y ago
  > if you can remove a rear subframe with the engine, transaxle and rear suspension from a mid-or-rear engine sports car with a 6-to-12 cylinder, you're ready for a Tesla battery pack replacement. I think the problem might be that a lot of people will assume replacing the battery in a Tesla isn't much different from replacing the battery in their 1998 Toyota. Electric cars are kind of new, and it will take a while for our culture to catch up.
  - 8y ago
nkrisc 8y ago
> After more than a year of tinkering and of challenge after challenge, Benoit had proudly restored Delores nearly back to showroom quality, and in video #61, she passed state inspection. I'm not sure what point you're trying to make. There regulations for what you can and can't drive on the road. If you're talking about someone setting fire to their car and hurting themselves or others, they'd be liable.

by mtw 8y ago

rimliu 8y ago

One of the popular modifications done here is modifying petrol engines to be able to run on natural gas. And if you see some news about a car catching fire on the street you can bet it had this modification done.

onli 8y ago

If there is a right to repair all of this does not matter. Tesla has - or should have - the obligation to sell the parts, and probably to also inform of the risks. A bad repair is not on tesla, it's on the mechanic doing the work.

UnpossibleJim 8y ago
That has yet to be decided. That's the problem. In a reasonable society, of course, no one would question this. However, while driving down the road, a shoddy repair has an effect on another system which interferes with the lane change sensor and allows you to drift into a semi while checking you iPhone, that is Tesla's fault (or so you'll argue in court). Things get into grey areas quickly. Also, if you have a lawyer that's worth his/her salt, they'll try to suppress the fact that you had a repair on an unrelated system by an unlicensed shop.
- thisisit 8y ago
  I am curious. So you are saying there have been no cases filed in last 50 years where car manufacturers have sold parts but mechanic repairs were shoddy causing an accident?
  - martin_a 8y ago
    Well, that would be easy to find out and fix. With the degree of autonomy that cars like Tesla come with, there are whole new battlefields which courts will have to figure out first.
- lurker458 8y ago
  This already has been decided, and the decision was against the automakers trying to hold a monopoly on aftermarket repairs. They're not allowed to restrict parts or knowledge from third party mechanics.

MisterTea 8y ago

> I haven't heard of mechanic setting regular cars on fire when repairing them though. You clearly haven't been around many repair shops or performed your own auto maintenance. It's not that hard and does happen from time to time. Another thing to think about is how many times have I heard of stories where a mechanic or oil change tech forgets to tighten something, oil or fuel leaks, drips onto the hot exhaust manifold and starts an engine fire... while driving.

dsfyu404ed 8y ago
>Another thing to think about is how many times have I heard of stories where a mechanic or oil change tech forgets to tighten something, oil or fuel leaks, drips onto the hot exhaust manifold and starts an engine fire... while driving. The properties that make engine oil last thousands of miles without breaking down in the conditions you find inside an engine also make it very hard to ignite if not mixed with something more flammable (trust me, I've tried, it won't stay lit on its own). Fluid based vehicle fires are usually the result of transmission fluid or power steering fluid which are more flammable. Fuel based fires are pretty rare (for how flammable gasoline is) because safety standards all but require OEMs to over-build the fuel systems. Also due to the nature of engine designs (you kind of need the exhaust ports on the head so the manifold goes somewhere therabouts) it's quite rare to have a situation where it's possible for an engine oil leak to reach exhaust system parts in any appreciable volume. Remember, if you're losing that much oil the car will likely stop for other reasons long before it catches fire.
- acranox 8y ago
  It can, however, create so much smoke, that you won't be able to see much in front of you as the smoke pours out from under the hood, and leaves an oily film all over your windscreen.
monkeynotes 8y ago
My brake callipers pinched and caused a fire, a bone-headed mechanic or DIYer could cause this problem with a bad brake job. There are so many, many ways a car can go wrong and kill someone, battery-tech or otherwise.

MrFoof 8y ago

As others have stated, this is irrelevant. There are plenty of ways to get cars with gasoline engines to catch fire, and any attempts to sue every other manufacturer over the poor work of shade-tree mechanics is already something that has been dealt with for decades. Moreover there are other manufacturers that are long as annoying to deal with as Tesla, particularly exotics -- they're just that, annoying -- that do things by the book, no worse than any certified manufacturer mechanic. Hell, some independents are invaluable. My personal mechanic has had to have video calls with Porsche Classic (in Stuttgart) to tell them how Porsche badly did work (at great expense) on cars like the 959, that he then had to do right, because Porsche's official Classic restoration shop effed it up. He's functionally restoring lost knowledge at Porsche because the domain knowledge of those cars was lost -- and you'll find independent mechanics for Ferrari, Lamborghini, Aston Martin, McLaren, etc. that are also equally invaluable to keep classics running and dead reliable, and helping the manufacturers out by providing training, and ensuring there's a (very profitable) customer base with an interest for the old metal. I buy and repair/flip lots of popular used commodity cars -- including hybrids -- as a hobby. Hybrids are increasingly popular for me because there's demand, and most mechanics haven't bothered with them yet, so it's a pretty easy $1800 - $2500 to turn around a Prius that needed a rebuilt battery from a reliable battery re-manufacturer that stands by 6-year warranties on their battery packs. I've met Rich a few times at car shows. He's not a knucklehead, and Teslas aren't rocket surgery. Those battery packs are a different beast than the 40-50kg packs in a hybrid, but if you can remove a rear subframe with the engine, transaxle and rear suspension from a mid-or-rear engine sports car with a 6-to-12 cylinder, you're ready for a Tesla battery pack replacement.

geon 8y ago
> if you can remove a rear subframe with the engine, transaxle and rear suspension from a mid-or-rear engine sports car with a 6-to-12 cylinder, you're ready for a Tesla battery pack replacement. I think the problem might be that a lot of people will assume replacing the battery in a Tesla isn't much different from replacing the battery in their 1998 Toyota. Electric cars are kind of new, and it will take a while for our culture to catch up.
- 8y ago

nkrisc 8y ago

> After more than a year of tinkering and of challenge after challenge, Benoit had proudly restored Delores nearly back to showroom quality, and in video #61, she passed state inspection. I'm not sure what point you're trying to make. There regulations for what you can and can't drive on the road. If you're talking about someone setting fire to their car and hurting themselves or others, they'd be liable.