6 ms·

So many people, including a lot of comments here, seem to think that it’s designed around the winter. It’s not, it’s to move an hour of sunlight from the start

So many people, including a lot of comments here, seem to think that it’s designed around the winter. It’s not, it’s to move an hour of sunlight from the start of the day (say, 4am) to the end of the day (say, 9pm) so that you use less energy in the summer (hence the ‘savings’), and then you can enjoy that rather than being asleep. Moving to summer time year-round means that the mornings in the winter will be darker. I like having a bit of daylight in the mornings in the winter, and I’ll miss it when it’s gone. As I’m sure a lot of people will when they realise that getting ‘rid’ of it makes the winter worse, not the summer better.

fixvzbdjzis 8y ago
That’s why we should get rid of “it” in te summer, where it was added to begin with. anyone who’s a light sleeper appreciates how harmful daylight savings is. Plus no one stops anyone from waking up an hour earlier. But I bloody well can’t sleep in an hour later!
Asooka 8y ago
Year-round summer time sounds horrifying, is there anything I can do to prevent it?
- scotty79 8y ago
  Ask your boss if you can come to the office hour later in winter time.
  - Asooka 8y ago
    Har har. That's not the problem, the problem is for everyone else who can't "just come an hour later" and especially for teenagers who will have to suffer even earlier school times for the entire year. From all I know, having winter time year-round will be objectively worse in aggregate, so I want to not have that happen. I already participated in the initial EU questionnaire and voted for repealing DST, but I don't want to end up on summer time all year.
    - scotty79 8y ago
      Winter time all year wouldn't be good enough either. It's still way too early to be waking up at customary hours of winter time. We made a huge mistake when we allowed larks not owls to set schedule our economy and society runs by.
Reason077 8y ago
> "I like having a bit of daylight in the mornings in the winter" I am the opposite. For me, the early morning winter sunrise is an annoyance, and just feels a waste of daylight if it's bright outside when I'm asleep. Sometimes in mid-winter it seems like its already starting to get dark when I'm just getting started with my day. Awful!
- rimliu 8y ago
  I am with you. I enjoy long summer evenings when it is till some light at 11pm and you can be swimming, camping, whatever. Winter time would mean sun rising ~3:30 in the morning. I have no desire do get up that early.
  - slavik81 8y ago
    Unless you desire to get up at 4:30 in the morning, you're going to have to invest in some curtains either way. At that point, the exact time of sunrise doesn't really matter.
    - rimliu 8y ago
      Alas, early sunshine wakes up some noisy birds, so curtains may not be the entire solution :(
      - xattt 8y ago
        Clearly, shifting the time by an hour keeps the birds asleep longer.
        matt_kantor 8y ago
        Your comment was probably meant to be silly, but in case not: Using wall clock time as the measure, this would mean the birds sleep later. The hour we used to call 4am would be called 5am. Birds will wake up at the same physical time, but what matters is what our clocks say.
      - 8y ago
dezzeus 8y ago
You're both right and wrong: the need to "move" that hour is needed only during a period of the year (latitute-dependent; on average March-October in the northern hemisphere) that mostly cover the Summer (Winter in the southern hemisphere), in order to synchronize our body-clock with the sunrise (which depends on your location). Obviously a solution that is "one size, fit all" doesn't exists, hence those (poorly informed) discussions... The energy's story is mostly a consequence.
rsik 8y ago
So just change the hours you work during the Winter! Why do you have to modify the actual clock that everyone else uses to do that?
- athenot 8y ago
  That would be great but convincing School Boards of that would be a non-trivial task.
  - magduf 8y ago
    According to someone farther down in the comments here, India has no DST and simply starts school later in the winter. I guess that's just too hard for America?
    - stonecharioteer 8y ago
      I'm an Indian and that doesn't ring a bell. School used to start at 8.00 for me. Throughout the year. No dst. When I started working for a European company, it was insane that I had to wind back clocks.
      - magduf 8y ago
        Sorry if I was incorrect. Here's the comment I was referring to: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19318022 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19318022
  - rsik 8y ago
    DST causes trauma for people with bipolar disorder, heart attacks go up, etc. Also, on a selfish note, it's irritating to program around. DST is a legislative solution to the problem of getting everyone to change scheduling. So why not use legislation to get those school boards to change scheduling directly?
    - rsik 8y ago
      downvotes instead of rational arguments? On HN? Either pigs are flying or it's Wednesday again.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
dragonwriter 8y ago
> Moving to summer time year-round means that the mornings in the winter will be darker The US is already on DST most of the year, so permanent DST is simply the minimum-change method of abandoning clock shifts.
- runarberg 8y ago
  Please consult public health experts before making any decision like this. I have a feeling that suicide rates in the US northern states might go up if they stay on a permanent DST.
antisthenes 8y ago
> I like having a bit of daylight in the mornings in the winter, and I’ll miss it when it’s gone. As I’m sure a lot of people will when they realise that getting ‘rid’ of it makes the winter worse, not the summer better. Considering that society is already built around morning larks and all the advantages they enjoy, this decision is a tiny, if pleasant victory for the night owls. I can't recall the last time I was awake early enough to take advantage of that early sunlight hour. It was probably years ago.

fixvzbdjzis 8y ago

That’s why we should get rid of “it” in te summer, where it was added to begin with. anyone who’s a light sleeper appreciates how harmful daylight savings is. Plus no one stops anyone from waking up an hour earlier. But I bloody well can’t sleep in an hour later!

Asooka 8y ago

Year-round summer time sounds horrifying, is there anything I can do to prevent it?

scotty79 8y ago
Ask your boss if you can come to the office hour later in winter time.
- Asooka 8y ago
  Har har. That's not the problem, the problem is for everyone else who can't "just come an hour later" and especially for teenagers who will have to suffer even earlier school times for the entire year. From all I know, having winter time year-round will be objectively worse in aggregate, so I want to not have that happen. I already participated in the initial EU questionnaire and voted for repealing DST, but I don't want to end up on summer time all year.
  - scotty79 8y ago
    Winter time all year wouldn't be good enough either. It's still way too early to be waking up at customary hours of winter time. We made a huge mistake when we allowed larks not owls to set schedule our economy and society runs by.

Reason077 8y ago

> "I like having a bit of daylight in the mornings in the winter" I am the opposite. For me, the early morning winter sunrise is an annoyance, and just feels a waste of daylight if it's bright outside when I'm asleep. Sometimes in mid-winter it seems like its already starting to get dark when I'm just getting started with my day. Awful!

rimliu 8y ago
I am with you. I enjoy long summer evenings when it is till some light at 11pm and you can be swimming, camping, whatever. Winter time would mean sun rising ~3:30 in the morning. I have no desire do get up that early.
- slavik81 8y ago
  Unless you desire to get up at 4:30 in the morning, you're going to have to invest in some curtains either way. At that point, the exact time of sunrise doesn't really matter.
  - rimliu 8y ago
    Alas, early sunshine wakes up some noisy birds, so curtains may not be the entire solution :(
    - xattt 8y ago
      Clearly, shifting the time by an hour keeps the birds asleep longer.
      - matt_kantor 8y ago
        Your comment was probably meant to be silly, but in case not: Using wall clock time as the measure, this would mean the birds sleep later. The hour we used to call 4am would be called 5am. Birds will wake up at the same physical time, but what matters is what our clocks say.
    - 8y ago

dezzeus 8y ago

You're both right and wrong: the need to "move" that hour is needed only during a period of the year (latitute-dependent; on average March-October in the northern hemisphere) that mostly cover the Summer (Winter in the southern hemisphere), in order to synchronize our body-clock with the sunrise (which depends on your location). Obviously a solution that is "one size, fit all" doesn't exists, hence those (poorly informed) discussions... The energy's story is mostly a consequence.

rsik 8y ago

So just change the hours you work during the Winter! Why do you have to modify the actual clock that everyone else uses to do that?

athenot 8y ago
That would be great but convincing School Boards of that would be a non-trivial task.
- magduf 8y ago
  According to someone farther down in the comments here, India has no DST and simply starts school later in the winter. I guess that's just too hard for America?
  - stonecharioteer 8y ago
    I'm an Indian and that doesn't ring a bell. School used to start at 8.00 for me. Throughout the year. No dst. When I started working for a European company, it was insane that I had to wind back clocks.
    - magduf 8y ago
      Sorry if I was incorrect. Here's the comment I was referring to: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19318022 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19318022
- rsik 8y ago
  DST causes trauma for people with bipolar disorder, heart attacks go up, etc. Also, on a selfish note, it's irritating to program around. DST is a legislative solution to the problem of getting everyone to change scheduling. So why not use legislation to get those school boards to change scheduling directly?
  - rsik 8y ago
    downvotes instead of rational arguments? On HN? Either pigs are flying or it's Wednesday again.

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

dragonwriter 8y ago

> Moving to summer time year-round means that the mornings in the winter will be darker The US is already on DST most of the year, so permanent DST is simply the minimum-change method of abandoning clock shifts.

runarberg 8y ago
Please consult public health experts before making any decision like this. I have a feeling that suicide rates in the US northern states might go up if they stay on a permanent DST.

antisthenes 8y ago

> I like having a bit of daylight in the mornings in the winter, and I’ll miss it when it’s gone. As I’m sure a lot of people will when they realise that getting ‘rid’ of it makes the winter worse, not the summer better. Considering that society is already built around morning larks and all the advantages they enjoy, this decision is a tiny, if pleasant victory for the night owls. I can't recall the last time I was awake early enough to take advantage of that early sunlight hour. It was probably years ago.