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"Explorers needed to crawl for hours just to reach first of seven offering chambers"... followed by a shot of one of them, flat of his stomach, clawing at the s

• yread 8y ago
  Cave exploration is sometimes like that https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FAY-t32vyds https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FAY-t32vyds
  • eps 8y ago
    Yeah, I've seen this one. This is an "alternative entrance" to a decently-sized cave with a normal access elsewhere off camera. That's not to say there aren't examples of some truly disturbing spelunking - https://i.imgur.com/BkmpH9v.jpg https://i.imgur.com/BkmpH9v.jpg
    • phkahler 8y ago
      Damn that's frightening. They need semi-autonomous robots (spider-like?) to crawl ahead with a camera before going head-first into a place like that.
    • xenophonf 8y ago
      Oh man, that poor guy didn't make it: https://www.deseretnews.com/article/705347362/Man-trapped-in-Utah-Countys-Nutty-Putty-cave-dies.html https://www.deseretnews.com/article/705347362/Man-trapped-in...
    • okmokmz 8y ago
      I saw that picture and read up more on the story a while back... absolutely horrifying situation. Stuck upside down underground for hours, unable to move or escape even though there are others right behind you that you can communicate with until you eventually die. Somewhat unrelated, but that is part of what made me decide to not further pursue my cave diving certification
    • paulddraper 8y ago
      That image is simply terrifying.
• menzoic 8y ago
  Maybe not wired differently. It could be that they've gained knowledge and experience that makes this seem normal/safe.
• CamperBob2 8y ago
  And the Maya didn't have LED headlamps with lithium-ion batteries, either. They went in there with torches.
  • RonanTheGrey 8y ago
    I was going to say this. I mean, we freak out at the idea of doing it now. Imagine some guy 1000 years ago who found a crevice... in the dark... and decided to crawl through it. That... both impresses and terrifies me.
    • gerbilly 8y ago
      Now overlay that with the belief that your are literally descending into the underworld.[1] It must have made for a very transformative experience. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xibalba https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xibalba
• kieckerjan 8y ago
  I once got so claustrophobic just by reading a book about caving that I had to put it away: Blind Descent by James Talbot. It describes the quest of a couple of maniacs to explore the deepest caves on earth under hellish circumstances. No light for weeks, no communication with the surface, camping against vertical walls in the dark, hurricane level winds, tight sumps full of dark water, disease, panic attacks... Man, who in his sane mind does things like that?
  • balabaster 8y ago
    Reading this feels as claustrophobic. This description gave me anxiety... and it's third hand information. Maybe I need therapy.
  • Loughla 8y ago
    Honestly it's this kind of thing that really makes me marvel at the human brain. Most people see 'the grass is greener' as meaning that you will always want what you don't have. I see it as meaning that you can honestly get used to anything, given enough time. It's inspiring really, when I'm at my worst and darkest times, to think - hey, if someone can deal with being tortured for years and get through it, I can make it through this.
    • gerbilly 8y ago
      > if someone can deal with being tortured for years and get through it, I can make it through this. I understand what you're saying, but being tortured for years leaves physiological and psychological scars that never go away. William Sampson, A Canadian who was tortured for 31 months in Saudi Arabia, died at 52 after suffering four heart attacks in six months.[1] Three of these were after the torture ended. [1] https://www.thestar.com/news/insight/2012/04/01/william_sampson_dies_nine_years_after_release_from_saudi_prison.html https://www.thestar.com/news/insight/2012/04/01/william_samp...
  • ash 8y ago
    The parent comment has a typo in book author name. The book is actually "Blind Descent: The Quest to Discover the Deepest Cave on Earth" by James M. Tabor. https://www.amazon.com/dp/0812979494 https://www.amazon.com/dp/0812979494 (Curiously, Google search for "James Talbot Blind Descent" points to this very Hacker News thread.)
• realo 8y ago
  Actually, if you look at the pictures, it would seem the artefacts themselves a larger than the crack we see in your image. That was mysterious to me until I saw the rather large electric lighting fixture on the cave floor. So there must be some larger passage somewhere.
• atwebb 8y ago
  Caving can be incredibly fun as well, tight squeezes can come with the territory but there's plenty of horizontal walking/borehole opportunities. It is pretty geographically dependent. This one always gets me a bit: https://gfycat.com/responsibleboweddalmatian-exploration-caving-nope https://gfycat.com/responsibleboweddalmatian-exploration-cav... I'm wondering if there's not a second entrance or something that sumped and connects, in the US some tracks are a mile or so back but several hours? Sounds significant.
  • mrhappyunhappy 8y ago
    I’m going to have nightmares after seeing that gif. How can these people be ok with that?
    • plink 8y ago
      Also, does the notion of eventually needing to turn around never stymie them?
      • stronglikedan 8y ago
        That's why the send the cameraman first.
  • riffraff 8y ago
    when I was a kid a crawled into half collapsed etruscan tombs often (which in hindsight was not a good idea) and it felt ok but this video gave me instant claustrophobia. It's incredible that people can do this as a hobby :)
  • cornellwright 8y ago
    It's funny - I've only caved a bit, but I watch that video and think "wow that looks fun." There's something so exciting about getting right up to the edge of what's possible for a human to do.
    • atwebb 8y ago
• nickjj 8y ago
  What bothers me about pictures like that isn't so much having to cram through the tight space. It's the cave collapsing and being squished to death with a 0% chance of survival. Do other people who are semi-claustrophobic fear the literal tight place, or dying from something going wrong that's out of your control? The same thing applies to heights. I have no problem with heights at all but ladders bother me a lot because I'm always thinking the ladder will fail at any second.
  • AnIdiotOnTheNet 8y ago
    You live in a universe where astronomical events lightyears away can obliterate life on earth with no advance warning whatsoever. Being in control is an illusion.
    • short_sells_poo 8y ago
      > Being in control is an illusion. It is a very useful illusion though. I take it as a sort of veneer that the brain hoists over our eyes to make day to day life bearable. There is some truth to the saying "Ignorance is a bliss".
    • EForEndeavour 8y ago
      The fact that all life on earth could theoretically be snuffed out without warning doesn't mean there aren't more mundane terrestrial factors that we can control, and should, assuming you're into things like comfort and survival. Oddly, this reminds me of my mild fear of driving. I can't ignore the fact that at any moment while driving, I or anyone driving near me could apply a few paltry newtons of force in a way that causes massive injury and destruction, changing or ending lives. Every time I get behind the wheel, I have to wonder at how casually I'm about to pilot a huge mass at lethal speeds around hundreds of other people casually doing the same thing. There's nothing I can directly do to affect the mistakes of others, but I accept the risk of freak accident and resolve to do what I can to at least reduce the risk of disaster (drive defensively). Analogously, we all accept the (demonstrably small) risk of annihilation by, e.g., gamma-ray burst, and go about our lives.
  • 8y ago
• JohnJamesRambo 8y ago
  Some people are even claustrophiles. Isaac Asimov was a famous one. Being in tight spaces makes them feel safe, although being actually stuck may not have the same effect.
  • toyg 8y ago
    Thanks for giving me a word that describes my instinct. I do tend to prefer small spaces. This said, there are limits - in places like that caving gif upthread, I'd freak the hell out.
• mr_overalls 8y ago
  An experienced caver buddy of of mine tells stories about doing chest compressions to get through really small spaces. You know, because the hole is too small for you to pass through with lungs full of air. So you exhale it all and hope there's space ahead for you to breath in again. No thanks, man. I'll stick with kayaking.
  • libraryatnight 8y ago
    Reading this gave me a mild panic attack. That just seems mad. I'm very glad there are people who are not affected by or have overcome fears to go and do these things though :)
  • privateSFacct 8y ago
    When I was kid I did some splunking, and squeezing through narrow spaces, especially with even a bit of water running near your mouth which is common = 100% hated it. Don't splunk at ALL anymore. Diving in cynotes in mexico though is stunning - so still have enjoyed doing that.
    • jandrese 8y ago
      Running water in a place like that makes me double nervous. A sudden shower breaks out while you're in the cave and a path like that can flood out in an instant.
• Razengan 8y ago
  Should they not be using remote-controlled drones first and 3D-map the tunnels first before going in with humans?
  • paulddraper 8y ago
    Cool idea, but what drone would you actually be able to use for spelunking?
    • Razengan 8y ago
      That is the actual question: Why aren't there spider-like (or some other suitable form) drones by now, for exploring enclosed environments with uneven terrain? Or are there?
      • paulddraper 8y ago
        Nothing AFAIK. And that's not surprising to me; the locomotion requirements are very tough. It has to be able to fit anywhere a small adult can fit. It has to be able to climb anything an adult can climb. There has to be a workable communication strategy (wirless, wired) through tunnels of solid rock. And it has to all that well enough not to need frequent retrieval.
• NelsonMinar 8y ago
  Aw, this one's easy; the passage isn't even underwater! It's the flooded passages so narrow you have to take your scuba gear off and pull it behind you that are really terrifying.
• Youden 8y ago
  A bit of a tangent but it never occurred to me before I went caving: The helmet keeps you safe from getting your head stuck. It's slightly bigger than your head so if anything attached to your neck is going to get stuck, it'll be your helmet, which you can remove.
• kristopolous 8y ago
  So wait? Ancient people carried valuable things through those enormously inconvenient tiny little holes and then created small hoards deep in the caves? Was there maybe an easier route that has fallen away through the centuries and this is what's left? Or was there perhaps a religious belief here because honestly, if you were trying to hide things, burying stuff sounds just as effective and quite a bit less dangerous.
  • teachrdan 8y ago
    The fit may have been easier for them, due to: 1. Shorter / thinner stature compared to today's explorers 2. The caves having compressed / become narrower, even slightly, in the last 1000 years