8 ms·

The road to hell is paved with good intentions. Getting rid of DST sounds like a good thing. Not messing time is patently good. But a bunch of countries on the

The road to hell is paved with good intentions. Getting rid of DST sounds like a good thing. Not messing time is patently good. But a bunch of countries on the western side of the EU ought to be on GMT instead of GMT+1. And appparently a majority of people want to make that worse, by making a permanent switch to GMT+2. This will make for fun winters, with the sun rising long after rush hour. This is stupid.

apexalpha 8y ago
Exactly. We talked about this in the Netherlands and permanent +2 for us is too far off. That's St Petersburg natural time, it would mean sunrise at 10am in wintertime. If the Germans will really push for permanent +2 time, then there will be a time zone border between us.
- Freak_NL 8y ago
  Opinion here in the Netherlands is divided between a preference for permanent winter time, permanent summer time, or keep changing the clocks twice a year¹. Sunrise at 10:00 in the winter? Fine! That at least gives us some light in the afternoon. 1: https://www.nrc.nl/nieuws/2018/12/19/meeste-nederlanders-willen-hele-jaar-wintertijd-a3126390 https://www.nrc.nl/nieuws/2018/12/19/meeste-nederlanders-wil...
  - apexalpha 8y ago
    Could be! Permanent summer time has my preference but I honestly don't mind at all if I have light when I get up, but a lot of people seem to want that. Also: permanent darkness rush hours. Nice.
    - mrunkel 8y ago
      So now you're ok with UTC+2? That's permanent summertime.
  - runarberg 8y ago
    You are neglecting public health concerns. People’s sleep tends to be disrupted when they have to wake up long before sunrise. Sleep is important for the population, more important then afternoon sunshine, I would say.
- locuscoeruleus 8y ago
  > it would mean sunrise at 10am in wintertime. Not sure why this is a problem - Norway
tirpen 8y ago
There is no natural law stipulating when rush hour happens or when buissness hours should be though. Shops will just start to open at 10 instead of 9 and workdays will start at 9 instead of 8 in those areas where this is a problem.
- mcv 8y ago
  By that argument, the whole world might as well use UTC everywhere. The whole idea of timezones is that local time still has some resemblance to natural time. If we're going to let go of that, I'd rather we just abandon timezones altogether and use UTC everywhere.
  - beobab 8y ago
    I actually like this idea. Mostly because it means that my Elite Dangerous time will be the same as my "local time".
    - mcv 8y ago
      You've got a solid grasp on your priorities. But it would definitely make it easier to coordinate online events, including gaming. As the world gets more globalised thanks to the internet, maybe it's not such a crazy idea after all. Or at least, maybe people should be more aware of how their local time relates to UTC, so they can think it both local time and UTC.
    - K2L8M11N2 8y ago
      https://qntm.org/abolish https://qntm.org/abolish
- tobyhinloopen 8y ago
  You're forgetting some "laws". Let me list them in order of priority: 1. Business hours must be kept in sync with the important countries next to them. This is important for communications between companies. When business hours are off by 1 hour, there is 1 hour less to communicate with your neighbour countries at business hours. That is 12.5% of the business day you cannot reliably contact another company in another country. 2. The clock must be equal to these important countries to not make mistakes when setting appointments. 3. Business people with kids have to bring their kids to school before business hours start. Schools start before business hours, about 30 minutes up to an hour earlier. 4. Shops open relative to business hours. The reality is that north-west EU will do whatever Germany does. Germany wants GMT+2. That means that all countries west of Germany that follow Germany will have post 10 o'clock sunrises in winter, 2 hours after people get out to bring their kids to school & go to work.
ktjfi 8y ago
GMT+2 for Spain would be absolutely retarded. I hope they take this opportunity to consider a permanent switch to GMT.
kabes 8y ago
Maybe some businesses will change opening hours and so rush hour might be more spread with less traffic jams?
Broken_Hippo 8y ago
This will make for fun winters, with the sun rising long after rush hour. This is stupid. This doesn't matter at all. Really. Folks in northern locations deal with it all the time. The sun rises and sets during rush hour in lots of locations in the world and it doesn't cause things to end.
- emerongi 8y ago
  Either you drive to work in dark or drive home in dark. It really doesn't matter.
  - henrikschroder 8y ago
    For a bunch of countries in northern Europe you don't even get to make the choice during winter. All trips to/from work or school are done in the dark, because there's just not enough daylight to go around.
hevi_jos 8y ago
Currently it is ridiculous that in Spain 10 o'clock in the evening is actually the same that 8 o'clock in Germany. That is because Germany and Spain share time while being almost two timezones apart. This was done by Franco to coordinate with Hitler long time ago. Your definition of "making it worse" is actually making the clock go as it should. That is, the sun is at its zenith at 12 o'clock in the morning. This could be considered a lot of thing , but stupid is not. Rush hour depends on people, people can change behavior. The sun can not.
gutnor 8y ago
> This will make for fun winters, with the sun rising long after rush hour. This is stupid. For a lot of people in the EU the day starts with preparing the family for work/school. However the day ends with various activities social or others. Shops and other things tends to close later rather than open earlier (eg: have you ever tried finding some judo class for the kids between 5AM and 6AM ?) More light in the evening extends the possibilities. As other mentioned, I spent all my youth going to school before the sun rises and coming back after it has set. That's the way it is in the North.
collyw 8y ago
In Spain, and I prefer having the light in the evening and I kind of appreciate the fact we are in the "wrong" timezone.
Faaak 8y ago
Please, in the future use "UTC" and not "GMT". GMT is defined by UTC, but not the other way around ;-)

apexalpha 8y ago

Exactly. We talked about this in the Netherlands and permanent +2 for us is too far off. That's St Petersburg natural time, it would mean sunrise at 10am in wintertime. If the Germans will really push for permanent +2 time, then there will be a time zone border between us.

Freak_NL 8y ago
Opinion here in the Netherlands is divided between a preference for permanent winter time, permanent summer time, or keep changing the clocks twice a year¹. Sunrise at 10:00 in the winter? Fine! That at least gives us some light in the afternoon. 1: https://www.nrc.nl/nieuws/2018/12/19/meeste-nederlanders-willen-hele-jaar-wintertijd-a3126390 https://www.nrc.nl/nieuws/2018/12/19/meeste-nederlanders-wil...
- apexalpha 8y ago
  Could be! Permanent summer time has my preference but I honestly don't mind at all if I have light when I get up, but a lot of people seem to want that. Also: permanent darkness rush hours. Nice.
  - mrunkel 8y ago
    So now you're ok with UTC+2? That's permanent summertime.
- runarberg 8y ago
  You are neglecting public health concerns. People’s sleep tends to be disrupted when they have to wake up long before sunrise. Sleep is important for the population, more important then afternoon sunshine, I would say.
locuscoeruleus 8y ago
> it would mean sunrise at 10am in wintertime. Not sure why this is a problem - Norway

tirpen 8y ago

There is no natural law stipulating when rush hour happens or when buissness hours should be though. Shops will just start to open at 10 instead of 9 and workdays will start at 9 instead of 8 in those areas where this is a problem.

mcv 8y ago
By that argument, the whole world might as well use UTC everywhere. The whole idea of timezones is that local time still has some resemblance to natural time. If we're going to let go of that, I'd rather we just abandon timezones altogether and use UTC everywhere.
- beobab 8y ago
  I actually like this idea. Mostly because it means that my Elite Dangerous time will be the same as my "local time".
  - mcv 8y ago
    You've got a solid grasp on your priorities. But it would definitely make it easier to coordinate online events, including gaming. As the world gets more globalised thanks to the internet, maybe it's not such a crazy idea after all. Or at least, maybe people should be more aware of how their local time relates to UTC, so they can think it both local time and UTC.
  - K2L8M11N2 8y ago
    https://qntm.org/abolish https://qntm.org/abolish
tobyhinloopen 8y ago
You're forgetting some "laws". Let me list them in order of priority: 1. Business hours must be kept in sync with the important countries next to them. This is important for communications between companies. When business hours are off by 1 hour, there is 1 hour less to communicate with your neighbour countries at business hours. That is 12.5% of the business day you cannot reliably contact another company in another country. 2. The clock must be equal to these important countries to not make mistakes when setting appointments. 3. Business people with kids have to bring their kids to school before business hours start. Schools start before business hours, about 30 minutes up to an hour earlier. 4. Shops open relative to business hours. The reality is that north-west EU will do whatever Germany does. Germany wants GMT+2. That means that all countries west of Germany that follow Germany will have post 10 o'clock sunrises in winter, 2 hours after people get out to bring their kids to school & go to work.

ktjfi 8y ago

GMT+2 for Spain would be absolutely retarded. I hope they take this opportunity to consider a permanent switch to GMT.

kabes 8y ago

Maybe some businesses will change opening hours and so rush hour might be more spread with less traffic jams?

Broken_Hippo 8y ago

This will make for fun winters, with the sun rising long after rush hour. This is stupid. This doesn't matter at all. Really. Folks in northern locations deal with it all the time. The sun rises and sets during rush hour in lots of locations in the world and it doesn't cause things to end.

emerongi 8y ago
Either you drive to work in dark or drive home in dark. It really doesn't matter.
- henrikschroder 8y ago
  For a bunch of countries in northern Europe you don't even get to make the choice during winter. All trips to/from work or school are done in the dark, because there's just not enough daylight to go around.

hevi_jos 8y ago

Currently it is ridiculous that in Spain 10 o'clock in the evening is actually the same that 8 o'clock in Germany. That is because Germany and Spain share time while being almost two timezones apart. This was done by Franco to coordinate with Hitler long time ago. Your definition of "making it worse" is actually making the clock go as it should. That is, the sun is at its zenith at 12 o'clock in the morning. This could be considered a lot of thing , but stupid is not. Rush hour depends on people, people can change behavior. The sun can not.

gutnor 8y ago

> This will make for fun winters, with the sun rising long after rush hour. This is stupid. For a lot of people in the EU the day starts with preparing the family for work/school. However the day ends with various activities social or others. Shops and other things tends to close later rather than open earlier (eg: have you ever tried finding some judo class for the kids between 5AM and 6AM ?) More light in the evening extends the possibilities. As other mentioned, I spent all my youth going to school before the sun rises and coming back after it has set. That's the way it is in the North.

collyw 8y ago

In Spain, and I prefer having the light in the evening and I kind of appreciate the fact we are in the "wrong" timezone.

Faaak 8y ago

Please, in the future use "UTC" and not "GMT". GMT is defined by UTC, but not the other way around ;-)