4 ms·

I thought it was great, but I know it's not a book for snowflakes. When I hear someone say "this is right" or "this is wrong", I am able to effortlessly interpr

I thought it was great, but I know it's not a book for snowflakes. When I hear someone say "this is right" or "this is wrong", I am able to effortlessly interpret this as "I believe this is right/wrong". It's just being efficient with language. I don't need people to add extra words for fear of offending me. Maybe the author was immature. That's great. Let it remind you what it's like to be young and so excited about something that you'd write a book about it. This book is great.

damsdu78 8y ago
Do you think it is useful for a Lisp noob?
- dan-robertson 8y ago
  I think it’s a great second book. For a first I’ve always recommended Practical Common Lisp. I don’t know if that recommendation is still up to date.
  - TurboHaskal 8y ago
    I'd simply give newbies this link http://stevelosh.com/blog/2018/08/a-road-to-common-lisp/ http://stevelosh.com/blog/2018/08/a-road-to-common-lisp/
    - zeveb 8y ago
      Yeah, that's an excellent — and modern — guide.
  - js8 8y ago
    I would recommend it to a Lisp enthusiast as a third after On Lisp. That's how I read it, anyway. Many things in LOL are quite opinionated. I don't think it's a distillation of knowledge (like On Lisp), but rather an exploration how far you can take some things (macros).
    - qohen 8y ago
      As a reminder, Paul Graham's On Lisp is freely downloadable, in PDF or PostScript via links on this page at PaulGraham.com: http://www.paulgraham.com/onlisptext.html http://www.paulgraham.com/onlisptext.html
- fiddlerwoaroof 8y ago
  This book is sort of a trap because some of the macros it defines make assumptions that are not guaranteed by the language specification: every once in a while, you’ll find people on IRC or similar asking for help with some of the examples from this book. Also, IMO, the defmacro/g macro defined in this book would have been better defined as a reader macro than as a codewalking macro.
  - lispm 8y ago
    > make assumptions that are not guaranteed by the language specification I haven't read it, I have to confess. It would be useful if those assumptions were explicitly mentioned and explained in the book. Some of the advanced macro stuff is easily outside of the standard and can be still useful, which for example lacks some of the environment features described in CLtL2.
  - weavie 8y ago
    If I recall somewhere around SBCL 1.2 they changed the way the backquote worked (totally fine for them to do that as it wasn't specified in the standard..) which broke the Let over Lambda macro. I think CCL still works. The code here should fix the problems : https://github.com/thephoeron/let-over-lambda https://github.com/thephoeron/let-over-lambda Note, it's been a while since I looked at it so I could have some of the details wrong. The book is still well worth reading to help you understand the possibilities with a programmable programming language, but just bear in mind the various caveats..
- TurboHaskal 8y ago
  Definitely not. The book expands on pg's books and a prior read is recommended.
- pepper_sauce 8y ago
  Read On Lisp before Let Over Lambda, but after a beginner book like Practical Common Lisp.
- black-tea 8y ago
  No, it's not. Others have suggested other great books for beginners, like Practical Common Lisp. You'll get the most from Let Over Lambda after you've already got a bit of experience with Lisp.
varjag 8y ago
I'm a long time Lisper myself but also couldn't get through this book. Maybe it's because am a snowflake, but my eyes rolled so often I was scared they'll get stuck in the up position.
- P_I_Staker 8y ago
  This is a big problem I have with books in general. Inevitably, the author drones on about some bullshit, and the book gets thrown across the room, never to be picked up again.
coldtea 8y ago
>I thought it was great, but I know it's not a book for snowflakes. When I hear someone say "this is right" or "this is wrong", I am able to effortlessly interpret this as "I believe this is right/wrong". It's just being efficient with language. Or, as we used to call it: "It's all about having had a few conversations with actual people in the actual world".
jwhite 8y ago
I agree. Something that might be worth noting: two minutes of googling didn't turn up the author's age, but I recall seeing this photo on his website when I bought it some time after it was published in 2008: https://hcsw.org/contact.php https://hcsw.org/contact.php Here's a more up-to-date photo: https://hoytech.com/about https://hoytech.com/about It's possible he was quite young when it was published. If that's the case, then I think the book is all the more a towering achievement. It's abrasive, and it smells a bit of 2000s forum fanboy discussions, but mature people should be able to read past the more opinionated parts and find the gems in the technical treatment.

damsdu78 8y ago

Do you think it is useful for a Lisp noob?

dan-robertson 8y ago
I think it’s a great second book. For a first I’ve always recommended Practical Common Lisp. I don’t know if that recommendation is still up to date.
- TurboHaskal 8y ago
  I'd simply give newbies this link http://stevelosh.com/blog/2018/08/a-road-to-common-lisp/ http://stevelosh.com/blog/2018/08/a-road-to-common-lisp/
  - zeveb 8y ago
    Yeah, that's an excellent — and modern — guide.
- js8 8y ago
  I would recommend it to a Lisp enthusiast as a third after On Lisp. That's how I read it, anyway. Many things in LOL are quite opinionated. I don't think it's a distillation of knowledge (like On Lisp), but rather an exploration how far you can take some things (macros).
  - qohen 8y ago
    As a reminder, Paul Graham's On Lisp is freely downloadable, in PDF or PostScript via links on this page at PaulGraham.com: http://www.paulgraham.com/onlisptext.html http://www.paulgraham.com/onlisptext.html
fiddlerwoaroof 8y ago
This book is sort of a trap because some of the macros it defines make assumptions that are not guaranteed by the language specification: every once in a while, you’ll find people on IRC or similar asking for help with some of the examples from this book. Also, IMO, the defmacro/g macro defined in this book would have been better defined as a reader macro than as a codewalking macro.
- lispm 8y ago
  > make assumptions that are not guaranteed by the language specification I haven't read it, I have to confess. It would be useful if those assumptions were explicitly mentioned and explained in the book. Some of the advanced macro stuff is easily outside of the standard and can be still useful, which for example lacks some of the environment features described in CLtL2.
- weavie 8y ago
  If I recall somewhere around SBCL 1.2 they changed the way the backquote worked (totally fine for them to do that as it wasn't specified in the standard..) which broke the Let over Lambda macro. I think CCL still works. The code here should fix the problems : https://github.com/thephoeron/let-over-lambda https://github.com/thephoeron/let-over-lambda Note, it's been a while since I looked at it so I could have some of the details wrong. The book is still well worth reading to help you understand the possibilities with a programmable programming language, but just bear in mind the various caveats..
TurboHaskal 8y ago
Definitely not. The book expands on pg's books and a prior read is recommended.
pepper_sauce 8y ago
Read On Lisp before Let Over Lambda, but after a beginner book like Practical Common Lisp.
black-tea 8y ago
No, it's not. Others have suggested other great books for beginners, like Practical Common Lisp. You'll get the most from Let Over Lambda after you've already got a bit of experience with Lisp.

varjag 8y ago

I'm a long time Lisper myself but also couldn't get through this book. Maybe it's because am a snowflake, but my eyes rolled so often I was scared they'll get stuck in the up position.

P_I_Staker 8y ago
This is a big problem I have with books in general. Inevitably, the author drones on about some bullshit, and the book gets thrown across the room, never to be picked up again.

coldtea 8y ago

>I thought it was great, but I know it's not a book for snowflakes. When I hear someone say "this is right" or "this is wrong", I am able to effortlessly interpret this as "I believe this is right/wrong". It's just being efficient with language. Or, as we used to call it: "It's all about having had a few conversations with actual people in the actual world".

jwhite 8y ago

I agree. Something that might be worth noting: two minutes of googling didn't turn up the author's age, but I recall seeing this photo on his website when I bought it some time after it was published in 2008: https://hcsw.org/contact.php https://hcsw.org/contact.php Here's a more up-to-date photo: https://hoytech.com/about https://hoytech.com/about It's possible he was quite young when it was published. If that's the case, then I think the book is all the more a towering achievement. It's abrasive, and it smells a bit of 2000s forum fanboy discussions, but mature people should be able to read past the more opinionated parts and find the gems in the technical treatment.