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"Go somewhere else" ignores the reality that essentially every company prioritizes profit over ethics. If you want to change the output of the tech industry, yo

"Go somewhere else" ignores the reality that essentially every company prioritizes profit over ethics. If you want to change the output of the tech industry, you have to actually push back and demand that change. Just moving doesn't fix anything.

captainbland 8y ago
Yeah I'd agree with this. Especially given that the author talks about employees' "purported values" which is a bit of a weasily way to suggest that they're just "virtue signalling" or something (or otherwise don't hold their values sincerely), I don't believe the author is actually arguing in good faith. Nevertheless, industrial action has had a long history of bringing about meaningful reform so I can't say I agree with the author even on practical grounds.
- Fins 8y ago
  He well might be arguing in bad faith (it's Crunch...) but, to bring up that quote that gets trotted out on HN every week about people not understanding things when their paycheck depends on not understanding them, it would be much more impressive, and "purported" would be much less applicable, if they were protesting not against some theoretical future project that does not affect their current paycheck, but against surveillance, vacuuming of private information, censorship, filter bubbles -- all those things that Google is doing right now. But somehow we don't see any of that.
  - jobigoud 8y ago
    There might be survivorship bias at play. Those against Google current practices are more likely to have quit already or not work for Google in the first place.
    - Fins 8y ago
      True (not that those practices were something extremely current though), but it doesn't make complaining about Dragonfly, which neither exists, nor will make much difference in regards to China's oppression, any less pathetic. Something tells me thwat all those "made by Google" doodads, phones, and wifis and all, aren't made by magical flying unicorns right in Mountain View.
  - thundergolfer 8y ago
    and Google's Corporate Tax avoidance.
scotty79 8y ago
> every company prioritizes profit over ethics That's just because companies are compelled to prioritize shareholder value and profit has much higher impact on that than ethics. Employees pushing for anything won't work. You'd have to create a way for ethics to influence stock price and how much of companies profits shareholders are entitled to get. But for that ethics would have to be codified... Law?
- standardUser 8y ago
  "Employees pushing for anything won't work." With the great, big, giant exception of unions.
- anth_anm 8y ago
  > compelled to prioritize shareholder value and profit has much higher impact on that than ethics No, this is just an excuse. Investors could sue. They could also sue because they think the ethical violations cost google money. They could sue for any other stupid reason. Companies have a lot of leeway in maximizing shareholder value. Amazon has pursued growth over short term profits for decades.
zwerdlds 8y ago
HR churn affects their bottom line.
MrLeap 8y ago
Some companies are working to immanentize orwelian surveillance states, other companies make baseballs. Not all unethics are equally unethical. I applaud anyone who stops doing something they think is evil, even if my lines are drawn differently.

captainbland 8y ago

Yeah I'd agree with this. Especially given that the author talks about employees' "purported values" which is a bit of a weasily way to suggest that they're just "virtue signalling" or something (or otherwise don't hold their values sincerely), I don't believe the author is actually arguing in good faith. Nevertheless, industrial action has had a long history of bringing about meaningful reform so I can't say I agree with the author even on practical grounds.

Fins 8y ago
He well might be arguing in bad faith (it's Crunch...) but, to bring up that quote that gets trotted out on HN every week about people not understanding things when their paycheck depends on not understanding them, it would be much more impressive, and "purported" would be much less applicable, if they were protesting not against some theoretical future project that does not affect their current paycheck, but against surveillance, vacuuming of private information, censorship, filter bubbles -- all those things that Google is doing right now. But somehow we don't see any of that.
- jobigoud 8y ago
  There might be survivorship bias at play. Those against Google current practices are more likely to have quit already or not work for Google in the first place.
  - Fins 8y ago
    True (not that those practices were something extremely current though), but it doesn't make complaining about Dragonfly, which neither exists, nor will make much difference in regards to China's oppression, any less pathetic. Something tells me thwat all those "made by Google" doodads, phones, and wifis and all, aren't made by magical flying unicorns right in Mountain View.
- thundergolfer 8y ago
  and Google's Corporate Tax avoidance.

scotty79 8y ago

> every company prioritizes profit over ethics That's just because companies are compelled to prioritize shareholder value and profit has much higher impact on that than ethics. Employees pushing for anything won't work. You'd have to create a way for ethics to influence stock price and how much of companies profits shareholders are entitled to get. But for that ethics would have to be codified... Law?

standardUser 8y ago
"Employees pushing for anything won't work." With the great, big, giant exception of unions.
anth_anm 8y ago
> compelled to prioritize shareholder value and profit has much higher impact on that than ethics No, this is just an excuse. Investors could sue. They could also sue because they think the ethical violations cost google money. They could sue for any other stupid reason. Companies have a lot of leeway in maximizing shareholder value. Amazon has pursued growth over short term profits for decades.

zwerdlds 8y ago

HR churn affects their bottom line.

MrLeap 8y ago

Some companies are working to immanentize orwelian surveillance states, other companies make baseballs. Not all unethics are equally unethical. I applaud anyone who stops doing something they think is evil, even if my lines are drawn differently.