3 ms·

Low paying jobs in developing economies have to be considered in the context of existing alternatives. If a Vietnamese rice farmer's son previously had only dai

Low paying jobs in developing economies have to be considered in the context of existing alternatives. If a Vietnamese rice farmer's son previously had only daily hours of backbreaking labor to look forward to on his father's paddies for what amounts to a dollar worth of earnings per day (only paid when they can finally sell the rice after many weeks of toiling) and then one day American McShoe Factory opens in the nearest city offering 3 dollars a day paid biweekly, this is a move up in the world. He'd willingly redirect his physical capacity for the job and trade it voluntarily for the money. Is this ideal? No, and to the labor market sensibilities of people in developed countries it could be seen as "looting" of workers but in relative terms, it's a previously unavailable, voluntarily chosen improvement for the farmer's son. Yes, human rights have to be seriously improved in many countries and many companies offering jobs in developing markets really need to clean up their worker rights standards, but on a fundamental level, we can't simply compare a given economic change to our ideal of how things should be (because ideals are not limited by any practical constraints). We have to compare it to existing and previous alternatives.

gerbilly 8y ago
I love this kind of reply. To me it's like that rabbit duck optical illusion[1]: when seen one way it seems reasonable, even almost inevitable, and then it suddenly flips and sounds like smarmy weasel words excusing exploitation. Here's my suggestion, why not pay the former rice paddy worker 50$/day and improve human rights at the McShoe Vietnam factory? It's still an awesome bargain by western standards. Oh and the money is there, just cut the seven figure salaries of all the C level executives back at McShoe headquarters. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rabbit%E2%80%93duck_illusion https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rabbit%E2%80%93duck_illusion
- dhruvrrp 8y ago
  Unfortunately reality doesn't work that way, unless you don't mind destroying the local economy and you'd rather force rich countries to subsidize economically backward countries. To put the money into perspective, $50/day, which might seem like a pittance to most people on HN, is almost 4-5 times the amount that most employees make at some of the better Indian outsourcing companies.
  - gerbilly 8y ago
    > Unfortunately reality doesn't work that way Because we make sure to keep it from working that way. Rich countries don't seem to have much trouble with destroying 'backward' countries when it suits them[1], maybe Vietnam could use a bit of this kind of economic 'destruction' you describe. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vietnam_War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vietnam_War
Brain_Thief 8y ago
Or, as informed consumers, we can identify the obvious fact that, outside certain exceptional industries, corporations have no inherent interest in improving the standards of living of their workers and accept that we have a vital role to play in incentivizing them toward more ethical behavior, mainly be refusing to patronize them in the absence of rigorously-enforced and progressive ethical standards.

gerbilly 8y ago

I love this kind of reply. To me it's like that rabbit duck optical illusion[1]: when seen one way it seems reasonable, even almost inevitable, and then it suddenly flips and sounds like smarmy weasel words excusing exploitation. Here's my suggestion, why not pay the former rice paddy worker 50$/day and improve human rights at the McShoe Vietnam factory? It's still an awesome bargain by western standards. Oh and the money is there, just cut the seven figure salaries of all the C level executives back at McShoe headquarters. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rabbit%E2%80%93duck_illusion https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rabbit%E2%80%93duck_illusion

dhruvrrp 8y ago
Unfortunately reality doesn't work that way, unless you don't mind destroying the local economy and you'd rather force rich countries to subsidize economically backward countries. To put the money into perspective, $50/day, which might seem like a pittance to most people on HN, is almost 4-5 times the amount that most employees make at some of the better Indian outsourcing companies.
- gerbilly 8y ago
  > Unfortunately reality doesn't work that way Because we make sure to keep it from working that way. Rich countries don't seem to have much trouble with destroying 'backward' countries when it suits them[1], maybe Vietnam could use a bit of this kind of economic 'destruction' you describe. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vietnam_War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vietnam_War

Brain_Thief 8y ago

Or, as informed consumers, we can identify the obvious fact that, outside certain exceptional industries, corporations have no inherent interest in improving the standards of living of their workers and accept that we have a vital role to play in incentivizing them toward more ethical behavior, mainly be refusing to patronize them in the absence of rigorously-enforced and progressive ethical standards.