5 ms·
Imagine if the mafia ran an entire country.
by ttul 8y ago
Imagine if the mafia ran an entire country.
- cpursley 8y agoA state is not all that different than a mafia (monopoly power). Try not paying your dues.
- thefounder 8y agoLast time I've checked IRS didn't come with a crow bar after my taxes and I still have all my fingers. Even an authoritarian government may behave better than mafia.
- imgabe 8y agoWell, assuming you paid your taxes. If you don't, they will throw you in jail. If you resist being thrown in jail, they'll use whatever force is necessary. Sure, they're not going to break your fingers with a crowbar, but ultimately the state backs up its authority with the use of force.
- merpnderp 8y agoOnly after following policies and procedures that apply to everyone equally, are open to the public, and are overseen by elected officials. I mean other than that, sure they both use force to achieve their goals.
- imgabe 8y agoI'm pretty sure the mob's policy on breaking people's fingers if they don't pay applies equally to everyone who owes them money, and anyone who chooses to borrow money from them is well aware of this policy.
- thefounder 8y agoYou don't know what you are talking about. You may get "whacked" for different reasons by the mafia, not owning them any money or having anything to do with them. It's not really a profit only oriented business. Money is just part of the game. Some people do things just because they can, not for financial gain.
- imgabe 8y agoOk? I don't see how that changes anything. You may get "whacked" by the government for other reasons too, like they mistakenly thought your house was a meth lab and you didn't put your hands up fast enough. The fact that other reasons exist doesn't mean that this one doesn't.
- merpnderp 8y agoWhy would you ignore the most important of the differences I mentioned - that of being overseen by elected officials? In the end, the government uses force to do everything, and this is okay because we get to vote on who controls that force, plus have a nifty legal framework and Constitution to limit the damage the elected idiots can do.
- imgabe 8y agoThere are differences. Nobody said there weren't. The parent comment was making an analogy, not positing that the government and the mafia are the literal exact same thing in every detail.
- dfrage 8y ago> Well, assuming you paid your taxes. If you don't, they will throw you in jail. In the US? You'd have to do more than not "pay your taxes", they'll first demand that you pay, and then seize assets and garnish your wages rather than take the very anti-American debtor prison approach.
- braythwayt 8y agoThis is a false equivalence. To paraphrase Erik Naggum, you are emphasizing the things that states and criminal enterprises have in common that are not important, while ignoring the ways in which they differ that are important. It's true that a state has a certain monopoly on governance. But it is not true that states and the mafia are not all that different.
- Sharlin 8y agoIt’s literally called ”the worst argument in the world”! https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/yCWPkLi8wJvewPbEp/the-noncentral-fallacy-the-worst-argument-in-the-world https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/yCWPkLi8wJvewPbEp/the-noncen...
- braythwayt 8y agoPlease accept all of my upvotes, this is the first time I am learning about “The Noncentral Fallacy.” Thank you.
- marvin 8y agoI suppose that’s why it’s called «the tyranny of the majority», but at least in democracies, the state does represent the majority of the voters. In principle, the state could be slimmed down dramatically. A majority libertarian state (or a majority that allowed opting out of the tax system) would be a very fascinating experiment to watch from a distance. (Might be too exciting to watch from up close).
- sideb0ard 8y agoBrian Michael Bendis already did - https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/ComicBook/TheUnitedStatesOfMurderInc https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/ComicBook/TheUnitedSt...
- ohaideredevs 8y agoThere is genuinely little reason to believe that modern-day Russia isn't run by the mafia and the KGB, as long as you define "run by" as "government mainly compromised of current/prior members."
- Sharlin 8y agoI mean, you probably meant ”comprised”, but ”compromised” is quite apt in this case as well.
- ohaideredevs 8y agoRight, thanks for the correction and right on the latter as well.
- gdy 8y agoI challenge you to name one mafia member in the Russian government.
- scottlocklin 8y agoIf you look into Bill Browder's background, connections with Safra ... Republic Bank, people like Comey and Mueller ... you may find out a mafia runs more than an entire country ... and I'm not talking about Russia.
- cycrutchfield 8y agoOh wow, you really blew the case wide open. Where did you get such amazing intel, Alex Jones?
- scottlocklin 8y agoGo have a look. It's bizarre. Safra/Republic Bank was deeply involved in the looting of Russia in the 90s; literally 747s full of physical dollars back and forth between JFK and Moscow. They also funded Browder who the Russians accuse of more of the same, more or less. One of Comey's few day jobs was sitting on the board for Republic's successor company ... and Mueller let them off for the huge money laundering scams they did as Republic (they have a long history working together; I'm sure it at least helped he was on the board). Browder himself is super shady, as even a cursory look into his background would tell you. However, the media, even congress seem to treat him as if he were physiologically incapable of telling a lie. There's 5-6 hours of the FBI interviewing him on such matters on youtube; since he's under oath he remarkably doesn't remember much. I guess that means he's technically not lying! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pu9DMxfTGhY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pu9DMxfTGhY
- auntienomen 8y agoYou know, Locklin, it's pretty weird to see you playing coy instead of spelling it out explicitly in flaming letters 100 feet high. Maybe what you're vaguely implying isn't actually true?
- scottlocklin 8y agoWhich piece do you find vague?
- mmphosis 8y agohttps://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/perspectives-on-politics/article/testing-theories-of-american-politics-elites-interest-groups-and-average-citizens/62327F513959D0A304D4893B382B992B https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/perspectives-on-poli...