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They're shutting it down in the same way they shut down terrorists.

huffmsa 8y ago
Not sure about the down boats here. The program caught and/or stopped precisely 0 (ZERO) terrorists. It also failed to harvest any data regarding "Muh Russians". It and many other NSA projects are about as effective as the TSA.
- naasking 8y ago
  I also believe the number is very low, but let's be fair: it's not clear that they would publish any terrorists they did catch, because then that reveals how they were caught, which terrorists can then use to adapt their tactics.
  - JustSomeNobody 8y ago
    They have to give the politicians something to brag about so funding doesn't go down.
- jessaustin 8y ago
  NSA is very effective for its actual purpose: transferring public assets to private hands. NSA employees either make their peace with that or they get destroyed. NSA treats whistleblowers at least as poorly as whistleblowers are treated anywhere else in the public segment of the military-industrial complex. Which is to say, very very poorly. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/may/22/how-pentagon-punished-nsa-whistleblowers https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/may/22/how-pentagon... https://www.rollcall.com/news/pentagon-whistleblowers-often-face-retaliation-that-goes-unpunished https://www.rollcall.com/news/pentagon-whistleblowers-often-...
  - auiya 8y ago
    Do you expect to hear from NSA whistleblowers for which everything went fine?
    - jessaustin 8y ago
      As we see in Table 2.3 on page 56 of a GAO report to Congress [0], of the 1159 Pentagon whistleblower reprisal complaints submitted in 2H-FY18, 16% were "substantiated" and the rest were repurposed for toilet paper. I do not expect the unsupervised services to surpass the performance of the Pentagon in this area. I'm also not surprised that the official-stenography war media have not covered this report. [0] https://media.defense.gov/2018/Dec/06/2002069859/-1/-1/1/SAR%20SEPT%202018.PDF https://media.defense.gov/2018/Dec/06/2002069859/-1/-1/1/SAR...
- evolvedcleaning 8y ago
  Do you have a source for this or is this speculation?
- hedora 8y ago
  These programs are all about domestic law enforcement. (The same goes for ICE checkpoints inside the us borders). In the case of TSA and ICE, they feed the prison system with more petty drug offenders. NSA data is widely used for “alternate reconstruction”, where the NSA flags someone and then the police falsify evidence to make it seem to the courts as though the evidence was obtained legally. Note that there’s no need to even lie about illegal surveillance that is outsourced to companies like Facebook and palintir, since the right to privacy only extends to government actions in the US (not government contractors).
- nilskidoo 8y ago
  Of course they stopped no terrorists, so I was joking that neither will they stop the program. Whether continued by other governmental efforts or if this one explicitly continues itself, the government has outright lied many, many times in the past, about a great many different things. I still believe that there is some hidden reason for all the financial costs and overblown efforts at data-mining, beyond "terrorism" or plain-jane control. It's just too big, too widescale. It feels like one of those rare instances where reality is getting dangerously close to full-on science fantasy.
- Spooky23 8y ago
  How do you know? Do you seriously think that nobody has attempted to coordinate a major terrorist action since 2001?
JustSomeNobody 8y ago
Yeah, I really hope we're getting beyond the terrorist fear mongering. It only existed as a way to win elections and funnel money away from tax payers to corporations.

Not sure about the down boats here. The program caught and/or stopped precisely 0 (ZERO) terrorists. It also failed to harvest any data regarding "Muh Russians". It and many other NSA projects are about as effective as the TSA.

naasking 8y ago
I also believe the number is very low, but let's be fair: it's not clear that they would publish any terrorists they did catch, because then that reveals how they were caught, which terrorists can then use to adapt their tactics.
- JustSomeNobody 8y ago
  They have to give the politicians something to brag about so funding doesn't go down.
jessaustin 8y ago
NSA is very effective for its actual purpose: transferring public assets to private hands. NSA employees either make their peace with that or they get destroyed. NSA treats whistleblowers at least as poorly as whistleblowers are treated anywhere else in the public segment of the military-industrial complex. Which is to say, very very poorly. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/may/22/how-pentagon-punished-nsa-whistleblowers https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/may/22/how-pentagon... https://www.rollcall.com/news/pentagon-whistleblowers-often-face-retaliation-that-goes-unpunished https://www.rollcall.com/news/pentagon-whistleblowers-often-...
- auiya 8y ago
  Do you expect to hear from NSA whistleblowers for which everything went fine?
  - jessaustin 8y ago
    As we see in Table 2.3 on page 56 of a GAO report to Congress [0], of the 1159 Pentagon whistleblower reprisal complaints submitted in 2H-FY18, 16% were "substantiated" and the rest were repurposed for toilet paper. I do not expect the unsupervised services to surpass the performance of the Pentagon in this area. I'm also not surprised that the official-stenography war media have not covered this report. [0] https://media.defense.gov/2018/Dec/06/2002069859/-1/-1/1/SAR%20SEPT%202018.PDF https://media.defense.gov/2018/Dec/06/2002069859/-1/-1/1/SAR...
evolvedcleaning 8y ago
Do you have a source for this or is this speculation?
hedora 8y ago
These programs are all about domestic law enforcement. (The same goes for ICE checkpoints inside the us borders). In the case of TSA and ICE, they feed the prison system with more petty drug offenders. NSA data is widely used for “alternate reconstruction”, where the NSA flags someone and then the police falsify evidence to make it seem to the courts as though the evidence was obtained legally. Note that there’s no need to even lie about illegal surveillance that is outsourced to companies like Facebook and palintir, since the right to privacy only extends to government actions in the US (not government contractors).
nilskidoo 8y ago
Of course they stopped no terrorists, so I was joking that neither will they stop the program. Whether continued by other governmental efforts or if this one explicitly continues itself, the government has outright lied many, many times in the past, about a great many different things. I still believe that there is some hidden reason for all the financial costs and overblown efforts at data-mining, beyond "terrorism" or plain-jane control. It's just too big, too widescale. It feels like one of those rare instances where reality is getting dangerously close to full-on science fantasy.
Spooky23 8y ago
How do you know? Do you seriously think that nobody has attempted to coordinate a major terrorist action since 2001?

JustSomeNobody 8y ago

Yeah, I really hope we're getting beyond the terrorist fear mongering. It only existed as a way to win elections and funnel money away from tax payers to corporations.