5 ms·

Facebook did the same thing Fox News and CNN did: Accept advertisements that affect who votes and for whom. It's not something Facebook created. Nor is it some

Facebook did the same thing Fox News and CNN did: Accept advertisements that affect who votes and for whom. It's not something Facebook created. Nor is it something that happened for the first time in 2016. It's a significant historical misunderstanding to believe propaganda was invented by Facebook in the 21st century.

Pharmakon 8y ago
I despise Fox News and CNN, but unless they took foreign money for those ads and didn’t go through the proper declarations making that clear, you’re presenting a false comparison. Fox and CNN, for all of their hideousness, also didn’t host bots and people having conversations with themselves to manipulate public discussion. They didn’t give the IRA a platform, and didn’t allow the likes of Cambridge Analytica to target high value voters in close states.
- TylerE 8y ago
  Fox certainly took plenty of NRA money, and they were/are taking tons of foreign cash.
  - Pharmakon 8y ago
    The NRA is a domestic lobbying group, and citation on the second point? Remember we’re specifically talking about buying political ads, not just investment in the company.
    - TylerE 8y ago
      https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/russian-agents-guilty-plea-intensifies-spotlight-on-relationship-with-nra/2018/12/13/e6569a00-fe26-11e8-862a-b6a6f3ce8199_story.html?utm_term=.c7de71c4deab https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/russian-agents-guilt... https://www.opensecrets.org/news/2018/12/nra-leader-jack-abramoff-gop-operative-russian-spy-maria-butina-lobbying/ https://www.opensecrets.org/news/2018/12/nra-leader-jack-abr...
      - Pharmakon 8y ago
        That’s a problem for the NRA, and if you don’t understand the difference between that and what happened with FB, I can’t help you. Have a nice night.
kuzehanka 8y ago
I don't think you understand the significance of the Facebook incident... 1: Facebook is implicated in knowingly accepting and failing to report funding from foreign agents. No news channel is implicated in such. Doing so would end that channel. 2: Facebook + Cambridge Analytica were in a unique position of power to apply ML as a propaganda tool capable of targeting individuals rather than segments. This unique position of power was allowed to exist due to lack of regulations on what data Facebook collects and how that data may be used.
thisisweirdok 8y ago
It's funny that you think that a foreign country can legally be sold ad space in the US for propaganda.
- dingaling 8y ago
  I am curious as to the reason for this objection. Whoever is appointed as the US President has an impact on 'Rest of World'. So why shouldn't RoW have an input on the selection process? Foreign companies buy ad space in the USA all the time to influence customer behaviour. An election isn't much different on principle.
  - mnm1 8y ago
    > So why shouldn't RoW have an input on the selection process? Laws against treason and foreign manipulation of elections exist so that foreign nations don't conquer and kill us all. There is no doubt Russia and many other nations want to do that. I guess that's not a good enough reason for you? Do you have a self-preservation instinct? Do you want to live? There's a few really good reasons not to treat advertising for elections like advertising for toilet paper. It's literally a matter of life and death. Lying about how effective your toilet paper is, is not.
  - thisisweirdok 8y ago
    This type of propaganda is typically misleading in that the sources and claimed intents are flat out lies (Advertising is regulated against this too). They're not saying "Russia wants you to vote for Trump" — they're doing things like sowing discontent and divisive rhetoric. The current propaganda efforts are absolutely fueling a lot of the divisiveness in the US right now. It's dangerous. You think it would be a fair election if Xi Jinping could drop a trillion dollars in the US to advocate for his favorite candidate?

Pharmakon 8y ago

I despise Fox News and CNN, but unless they took foreign money for those ads and didn’t go through the proper declarations making that clear, you’re presenting a false comparison. Fox and CNN, for all of their hideousness, also didn’t host bots and people having conversations with themselves to manipulate public discussion. They didn’t give the IRA a platform, and didn’t allow the likes of Cambridge Analytica to target high value voters in close states.

TylerE 8y ago
Fox certainly took plenty of NRA money, and they were/are taking tons of foreign cash.
- Pharmakon 8y ago
  The NRA is a domestic lobbying group, and citation on the second point? Remember we’re specifically talking about buying political ads, not just investment in the company.
  - TylerE 8y ago
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/russian-agents-guilty-plea-intensifies-spotlight-on-relationship-with-nra/2018/12/13/e6569a00-fe26-11e8-862a-b6a6f3ce8199_story.html?utm_term=.c7de71c4deab https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/russian-agents-guilt... https://www.opensecrets.org/news/2018/12/nra-leader-jack-abramoff-gop-operative-russian-spy-maria-butina-lobbying/ https://www.opensecrets.org/news/2018/12/nra-leader-jack-abr...
    - Pharmakon 8y ago
      That’s a problem for the NRA, and if you don’t understand the difference between that and what happened with FB, I can’t help you. Have a nice night.

kuzehanka 8y ago

I don't think you understand the significance of the Facebook incident... 1: Facebook is implicated in knowingly accepting and failing to report funding from foreign agents. No news channel is implicated in such. Doing so would end that channel. 2: Facebook + Cambridge Analytica were in a unique position of power to apply ML as a propaganda tool capable of targeting individuals rather than segments. This unique position of power was allowed to exist due to lack of regulations on what data Facebook collects and how that data may be used.

thisisweirdok 8y ago

It's funny that you think that a foreign country can legally be sold ad space in the US for propaganda.

dingaling 8y ago
I am curious as to the reason for this objection. Whoever is appointed as the US President has an impact on 'Rest of World'. So why shouldn't RoW have an input on the selection process? Foreign companies buy ad space in the USA all the time to influence customer behaviour. An election isn't much different on principle.
- mnm1 8y ago
  > So why shouldn't RoW have an input on the selection process? Laws against treason and foreign manipulation of elections exist so that foreign nations don't conquer and kill us all. There is no doubt Russia and many other nations want to do that. I guess that's not a good enough reason for you? Do you have a self-preservation instinct? Do you want to live? There's a few really good reasons not to treat advertising for elections like advertising for toilet paper. It's literally a matter of life and death. Lying about how effective your toilet paper is, is not.
- thisisweirdok 8y ago
  This type of propaganda is typically misleading in that the sources and claimed intents are flat out lies (Advertising is regulated against this too). They're not saying "Russia wants you to vote for Trump" — they're doing things like sowing discontent and divisive rhetoric. The current propaganda efforts are absolutely fueling a lot of the divisiveness in the US right now. It's dangerous. You think it would be a fair election if Xi Jinping could drop a trillion dollars in the US to advocate for his favorite candidate?