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Compare two developers. One just codes and the other not only knows how to code but knows how to debug (native, runtimes, etc.). So, then you publish developer

Compare two developers. One just codes and the other not only knows how to code but knows how to debug (native, runtimes, etc.). So, then you publish developer 1's pay salary and developer 2's pay salary. Now, developer 1 has a rage-boner because developer 2 is being paid more but there's the reason of his/her desirable skills being utilised in the role. Yet, developer 1 doesn't see this qualifiable reason and just sees this as being unfair/unequal. Pay transparency would only exacerbate the current problems around pay, not help alleviate them.

maxxxxx 8y ago
There are plenty of places with pay transparency and they work just fine. The information imbalance is only to the benefit of the employer.
- renholder 8y ago
  >There are plenty of places with pay transparency and they work just fine. The information imbalance is only to the benefit of the employer. Citations?
  - maxxxxx 8y ago
    For what? For pay transparency look at Congress staffers, lot of state employees, a lot of CEOs, the military or some tech companies. For the second point I think it's pretty well known that markets can only properly function if all participants have the relevant information.
    - renholder 8y ago
      >For the second point I think it's pretty well known that markets can only properly function if all participants have the relevant information. So the markets have been improperly functioning, this entire time, because they didn't have the relevant information...?
      - maxxxxx 8y ago
        Yes, the salary market is not functioning properly because one side has vastly more information than the other side.
    - Gibbon1 8y ago
      > markets can only properly function if all participants have the relevant information. That's the reason why it's criminal for employers to punish employees for discussing compensation with each other and why employers try their hardest to prevent that from happening. I posit that in a lot of (most) companies profit is born wholly by the underpaid employees.
  - lazyasciiart 8y ago
    Public servants. Sweden. Buffer.
    - renholder 8y ago
      >Public servants All public servants or just those paid by your statea and/or federal governments? Could you find out how much someone made at the NSA, for example? >Sweden. Tax returns are not the same as pay transparency. In premise, yes, in practice, no, because a tax return is based on taxable income only. So, let's say I have tax credits for having three kids. My taxable income would be vastly different from yours, if you have no kids. >Buffer Overflow...?
      - lazyasciiart 8y ago
        ....who do you think pays NSA employees? https://work.chron.com/nsa-pay-scale-16399.html https://work.chron.com/nsa-pay-scale-16399.html >Sweden. You are conflating tax returns and taxable income. A tax return shows the salary AND the tax credits. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-panama-tax-nordics-idUSKCN0X91QE https://www.reuters.com/article/us-panama-tax-nordics-idUSKC... >Buffer https://www.google.com/search?q=buffer+pay+transparency https://www.google.com/search?q=buffer+pay+transparency
  - rsanek 8y ago
    Professional sports is one that is brought up frequently. Athletes seem to be fine with being paid different amounts, and they too must work as a team to succeed.
PunchTornado 8y ago
there are plenty of situations where that better dev gets paid less. salary transparency will address that
- renholder 8y ago
  >there are plenty of situations where that better dev gets paid less. salary transparency will address that Plenty of situations? Where? Documented somewhere, I should hope, yeah? Is that better dev from a subjective or an objective perspective? The reason that I ask is because one dev can think that they're better than another and believe that they should be paid more but that could very well be the fault of fevered ego and not, necessarily, a reflection of reality, yeah? Also, salary transparency wouldn't actually address anything. It would be a tool to address the salary issue with management and management (plus, HR) would address it, yeah?
  - maxxxxx 8y ago
    "Also, salary transparency wouldn't actually address anything. It would be a tool to address the salary issue with management and management (plus, HR) would address it, yeah?" The first step to address issues is to gather relevant data so an informed decision can be made. right now we have only very incomplete data.
    - renholder 8y ago
      How can it be a step and also address it? You're creating a dichotomy that you're refusing to resolve here...
cascom 8y ago
not to mention the fact that there may be a junior developer 1a at a lower tier that can do everything developer 2 can do (and better) that is getting paid massively less...

maxxxxx 8y ago

There are plenty of places with pay transparency and they work just fine. The information imbalance is only to the benefit of the employer.

renholder 8y ago
>There are plenty of places with pay transparency and they work just fine. The information imbalance is only to the benefit of the employer. Citations?
- maxxxxx 8y ago
  For what? For pay transparency look at Congress staffers, lot of state employees, a lot of CEOs, the military or some tech companies. For the second point I think it's pretty well known that markets can only properly function if all participants have the relevant information.
  - renholder 8y ago
    >For the second point I think it's pretty well known that markets can only properly function if all participants have the relevant information. So the markets have been improperly functioning, this entire time, because they didn't have the relevant information...?
    - maxxxxx 8y ago
      Yes, the salary market is not functioning properly because one side has vastly more information than the other side.
  - Gibbon1 8y ago
    > markets can only properly function if all participants have the relevant information. That's the reason why it's criminal for employers to punish employees for discussing compensation with each other and why employers try their hardest to prevent that from happening. I posit that in a lot of (most) companies profit is born wholly by the underpaid employees.
- lazyasciiart 8y ago
  Public servants. Sweden. Buffer.
  - renholder 8y ago
    >Public servants All public servants or just those paid by your statea and/or federal governments? Could you find out how much someone made at the NSA, for example? >Sweden. Tax returns are not the same as pay transparency. In premise, yes, in practice, no, because a tax return is based on taxable income only. So, let's say I have tax credits for having three kids. My taxable income would be vastly different from yours, if you have no kids. >Buffer Overflow...?
    - lazyasciiart 8y ago
      ....who do you think pays NSA employees? https://work.chron.com/nsa-pay-scale-16399.html https://work.chron.com/nsa-pay-scale-16399.html >Sweden. You are conflating tax returns and taxable income. A tax return shows the salary AND the tax credits. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-panama-tax-nordics-idUSKCN0X91QE https://www.reuters.com/article/us-panama-tax-nordics-idUSKC... >Buffer https://www.google.com/search?q=buffer+pay+transparency https://www.google.com/search?q=buffer+pay+transparency
- rsanek 8y ago
  Professional sports is one that is brought up frequently. Athletes seem to be fine with being paid different amounts, and they too must work as a team to succeed.

PunchTornado 8y ago

there are plenty of situations where that better dev gets paid less. salary transparency will address that

renholder 8y ago
>there are plenty of situations where that better dev gets paid less. salary transparency will address that Plenty of situations? Where? Documented somewhere, I should hope, yeah? Is that better dev from a subjective or an objective perspective? The reason that I ask is because one dev can think that they're better than another and believe that they should be paid more but that could very well be the fault of fevered ego and not, necessarily, a reflection of reality, yeah? Also, salary transparency wouldn't actually address anything. It would be a tool to address the salary issue with management and management (plus, HR) would address it, yeah?
- maxxxxx 8y ago
  "Also, salary transparency wouldn't actually address anything. It would be a tool to address the salary issue with management and management (plus, HR) would address it, yeah?" The first step to address issues is to gather relevant data so an informed decision can be made. right now we have only very incomplete data.
  - renholder 8y ago
    How can it be a step and also address it? You're creating a dichotomy that you're refusing to resolve here...

cascom 8y ago

not to mention the fact that there may be a junior developer 1a at a lower tier that can do everything developer 2 can do (and better) that is getting paid massively less...