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>People voluntarily take positions there (and in fact, compete to get hired there). I would say this makes it more likely for people to be underpaid, especiall

>People voluntarily take positions there (and in fact, compete to get hired there). I would say this makes it more likely for people to be underpaid, especially when factoring in hours worked. See SpaceX for another example.

sokoloff 8y ago
Lots of people want to work in game development. Lots of people do. Some people say game devs are underpaid. I tend to think that they're paid what they agreed to accept and that is based in large part on market forces (supply and demand, value over replacement, etc.). I also left game development because it wasn't for me long-term. (I was underpaid relative to what I could make in another industry, but I wasn't underpaid by my game-dev company. They quickly hired a replacement for me, I'm sure.) A company like Google, paying substantially over minimum wage, is probably not underpaying most employees systematically, almost by definition IMO.
- crooked-v 8y ago
  > I was underpaid relative to what I could make in another industry, but I wasn't underpaid by my game-dev company. If a company underpays all its employees equally, it's still underpaying. Companies that do this are taking advantage of how people are not rational actors.
  - sokoloff 8y ago
    What is the reference for underpaying? Supply and demand of willing free-will workers? Profitability of the company? Something else? Or what a Wall Street hedge fund can pay?
    - crooked-v 8y ago
      In the context of video game companies, it's the comparison to other software companies and positions requiring about the same level of experience and prestige. Game producers are well-known at this point for recruiting naive grads and paying them peanuts compared to what they could get even just making CRUD web apps.
      - sokoloff 8y ago
        It's likely that many charities underpay software developers, because the developers are working there voluntarily in part for the mission. Political campaigns have the same property in a lot of cases. So long as people want to express their preferences in where they work based on the content of the work, the mission of the organization, the laptops they issue, or any other set of criteria, I think it's fair game that those choices tip the supply/demand relationship in or away from their favor.
        crooked-v 8y ago
        I think a key difference here is that a greater awareness of market-rate salaries preemptively affect those "want to work on video games" decisions much more than working for a volunteer organization. Corporate organizations in general put a lot of effort and culture into suppressing open knowledge and comparisons of pay rates.

sokoloff 8y ago

Lots of people want to work in game development. Lots of people do. Some people say game devs are underpaid. I tend to think that they're paid what they agreed to accept and that is based in large part on market forces (supply and demand, value over replacement, etc.). I also left game development because it wasn't for me long-term. (I was underpaid relative to what I could make in another industry, but I wasn't underpaid by my game-dev company. They quickly hired a replacement for me, I'm sure.) A company like Google, paying substantially over minimum wage, is probably not underpaying most employees systematically, almost by definition IMO.

crooked-v 8y ago
> I was underpaid relative to what I could make in another industry, but I wasn't underpaid by my game-dev company. If a company underpays all its employees equally, it's still underpaying. Companies that do this are taking advantage of how people are not rational actors.
- sokoloff 8y ago
  What is the reference for underpaying? Supply and demand of willing free-will workers? Profitability of the company? Something else? Or what a Wall Street hedge fund can pay?
  - crooked-v 8y ago
    In the context of video game companies, it's the comparison to other software companies and positions requiring about the same level of experience and prestige. Game producers are well-known at this point for recruiting naive grads and paying them peanuts compared to what they could get even just making CRUD web apps.
    - sokoloff 8y ago
      It's likely that many charities underpay software developers, because the developers are working there voluntarily in part for the mission. Political campaigns have the same property in a lot of cases. So long as people want to express their preferences in where they work based on the content of the work, the mission of the organization, the laptops they issue, or any other set of criteria, I think it's fair game that those choices tip the supply/demand relationship in or away from their favor.
      - crooked-v 8y ago
        I think a key difference here is that a greater awareness of market-rate salaries preemptively affect those "want to work on video games" decisions much more than working for a volunteer organization. Corporate organizations in general put a lot of effort and culture into suppressing open knowledge and comparisons of pay rates.