6 ms·

So, how will this help with things like fake SD cards? Those are usually sold unbranded, but are still faker than fake. IMHO, it's not a good compromise to pu

So, how will this help with things like fake SD cards? Those are usually sold unbranded, but are still faker than fake. IMHO, it's not a good compromise to push the responsibility for fake-detection onto brands and manufacturers. Small makers might not have the resources to effectively police Amazon's massive inventory, and some brands might abuse this power to squash smaller competitors. It's really Amazon's job to keep fakes out off of its platform, and I think they should do the work themselves. However, cooperative things like their "serialization" feature seem like a pretty good idea.

tyingq 8y ago
That would require some better way of attaching identity for co-mingled inventory back to the actual entity that shipped it to Amazon. I don't know how much Amazon cares about it yet.
- vernie 8y ago
  If they gave a shit they never would have commingled marketplace inventory in the first place.
- ikeboy 8y ago
  Amazon knows on each purchase which seller the inventory came from. If a report comes in that a specific purchase was fake, they can trace which seller shipped it. This isn't complicated.
  - TazeTSchnitzel 8y ago
    This is wrong; if it were true, Amazon wouldn't have such a huge problem. Amazon don't know which seller it's from if it's Fulfilled by Amazon comingled inventory. You can literally ship plastic bricks to Amazon with the right UPC codes on them, ask Amazon to return some of the inventory, and get back actual products with that code that were sent to Amazon by other sellers.
    - ikeboy 8y ago
      This is true but doesn't mean Amazon doesn't know who sends what. As long as they track which box contains which units it doesn't matter if they ship A's stock for B's sales or returns, they still know it was A's stock.
      - TazeTSchnitzel 8y ago
        They don't track that, if they did they wouldn't have the problem.
        ikeboy 8y ago
        They claim they track it, I obviously don't run their warehouses but I don't think they'd explicitly claim it works one way if it doesn't. Why do you think keeping stock separate instantly solves a counterfeit problem?
magnetic 8y ago
> So, how will this help with things like fake SD cards? Those are usually sold unbranded. How can an unbranded SD card be fake? Fake with respect to what? A brand brings this value: expectations. If I buy a no-brand item, I'm not sure what expectations I can have, and I'm not sure I can even claim that it's a fake, since I have no reference point as "the true item". I mean that's literally the biggest value that a brand brings to you, the consumer. That's also why brands work hard to build up and maintain good reputations.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- iwalton3 8y ago
  A fake SD card is one that doesn't store all the data it claims to. There are SD cards on Amazon that claim to store 64 GB (or whatever), but they really store a fraction of that, with firmware that lies to the user and corrupts the data they try to store beyond the actual capacity.
  - magnetic 8y ago
    What you are describing is quite orthogonal to brands: it is simply fraud, ie selling something with specs that you know are bogus. I've seen it called "false advertising" too. That is exactly what a brand is supposed to protect you against: if a reputable brand is caught doing this, it won't take long for its reputation to go down the drain. You won't see many reputable brands engage in this, and that also explains why they rightfully complain when someone else uses their brand to push their bogus products, as their reputation can take a hit due to a malicious player. Intellectual Property protection around brands (brand names, logos, etc...) is serious business.
    - cauthon 8y ago
      You asked how an unbranded SD card can be fake, and they explained. I think the "reference point for a true item" would be an SD card with the advertised amount of storage, regardless of branding.
stcredzero 8y ago
Small makers might not have the resources to effectively police Amazon's massive inventory, and some brands might abuse this power to squash smaller competitors. I just bought a small physical device/tool for a particular task. (Magazine reloader.) Apparently, this small niche manufacturer has serious problems with Chinese knock-offs. However, all of the knock offs could be found with a simple generic search on Amazon. Furthermore, most of the knock offs really relied on also knocking off the branding of the original, so searching on the brand name very specifically found all of the knock offs. So this can cut both ways. Strong brands, even from small manufacturers, can cope without Amazon's intervention, but this could well raise the barriers to entry for new brands. It's really Amazon's job to keep fakes out off of its platform, and I think they should do the work themselves. I ordered 1 Gerber keychain multitool from Amazon awhile back, and I got 3 of them. The runner who grabbed the box didn't realize she/he grabbed a pack of 3. If they are operating at a pace where they get quantity wrong, just who at Amazon is going to take the time to inspect items and distinguish the fakes? This can be a serious problem, with potentially health damaging effects. There was a problem with knockoffs of a leading brand of electronic hearing protection. These knockoffs had electronics that were too slow to clamp down on noise signals, and so could actually amplify quite dangerous levels of noise for a few milliseconds. Just last night, I was watching a YouTube video about knockoff green laser pointers. It turns out, all of the cheaper ones tested leave out a necessary filter and so leak a lot of energy as invisible infrared light. This can be quite dangerous, as it's potentially eye damaging and yet invisible, so it's far too easy to expose yourself from a back reflection, without even knowing it. https://www.technologyreview.com/s/420214/the-danger-of-green-laser-pointers/ https://www.technologyreview.com/s/420214/the-danger-of-gree...
- CharlesColeman 8y ago
  > Furthermore, most of the knock offs really relied on also knocking off the branding of the original, so searching on the brand name very specifically found all of the knock offs. That's only one class of knock off, and the easiest kind to police. > If they are operating at a pace where they get quantity wrong, just who at Amazon is going to take the time to inspect items and distinguish the fakes? That's a really weird assertion, since Amazon's current practices are totally irrelevant. It also makes no sense to talk about order pickers being the key part of any solution. Amazon has total freedom to reform its business practices in all relevant parts of its organization to solve this problem, and I would argue it's their responsibility. Those changes would likely not be at the order fulfillment level, but at the SKU creation/inventory acquisition/seller account approval level. Personally, I think Amazon should completely separate Amazon Marketplace from their main online store, and push it onto an entirely different site that's excluded from searches by default. Then they should rework the FBA into a program that has very high standards and accountability, and make it the only way 3rd party sellers can get things listed on the main Amazon site.
behringer 8y ago
This isn't solving any problem user's have had. This is purely about knocking out the second hand market and unauthorized resellers.

tyingq 8y ago

That would require some better way of attaching identity for co-mingled inventory back to the actual entity that shipped it to Amazon. I don't know how much Amazon cares about it yet.

vernie 8y ago
If they gave a shit they never would have commingled marketplace inventory in the first place.
ikeboy 8y ago
Amazon knows on each purchase which seller the inventory came from. If a report comes in that a specific purchase was fake, they can trace which seller shipped it. This isn't complicated.
- TazeTSchnitzel 8y ago
  This is wrong; if it were true, Amazon wouldn't have such a huge problem. Amazon don't know which seller it's from if it's Fulfilled by Amazon comingled inventory. You can literally ship plastic bricks to Amazon with the right UPC codes on them, ask Amazon to return some of the inventory, and get back actual products with that code that were sent to Amazon by other sellers.
  - ikeboy 8y ago
    This is true but doesn't mean Amazon doesn't know who sends what. As long as they track which box contains which units it doesn't matter if they ship A's stock for B's sales or returns, they still know it was A's stock.
    - TazeTSchnitzel 8y ago
      They don't track that, if they did they wouldn't have the problem.
      - ikeboy 8y ago
        They claim they track it, I obviously don't run their warehouses but I don't think they'd explicitly claim it works one way if it doesn't. Why do you think keeping stock separate instantly solves a counterfeit problem?

magnetic 8y ago

> So, how will this help with things like fake SD cards? Those are usually sold unbranded. How can an unbranded SD card be fake? Fake with respect to what? A brand brings this value: expectations. If I buy a no-brand item, I'm not sure what expectations I can have, and I'm not sure I can even claim that it's a fake, since I have no reference point as "the true item". I mean that's literally the biggest value that a brand brings to you, the consumer. That's also why brands work hard to build up and maintain good reputations.

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
iwalton3 8y ago
A fake SD card is one that doesn't store all the data it claims to. There are SD cards on Amazon that claim to store 64 GB (or whatever), but they really store a fraction of that, with firmware that lies to the user and corrupts the data they try to store beyond the actual capacity.
- magnetic 8y ago
  What you are describing is quite orthogonal to brands: it is simply fraud, ie selling something with specs that you know are bogus. I've seen it called "false advertising" too. That is exactly what a brand is supposed to protect you against: if a reputable brand is caught doing this, it won't take long for its reputation to go down the drain. You won't see many reputable brands engage in this, and that also explains why they rightfully complain when someone else uses their brand to push their bogus products, as their reputation can take a hit due to a malicious player. Intellectual Property protection around brands (brand names, logos, etc...) is serious business.
  - cauthon 8y ago
    You asked how an unbranded SD card can be fake, and they explained. I think the "reference point for a true item" would be an SD card with the advertised amount of storage, regardless of branding.

stcredzero 8y ago

Small makers might not have the resources to effectively police Amazon's massive inventory, and some brands might abuse this power to squash smaller competitors. I just bought a small physical device/tool for a particular task. (Magazine reloader.) Apparently, this small niche manufacturer has serious problems with Chinese knock-offs. However, all of the knock offs could be found with a simple generic search on Amazon. Furthermore, most of the knock offs really relied on also knocking off the branding of the original, so searching on the brand name very specifically found all of the knock offs. So this can cut both ways. Strong brands, even from small manufacturers, can cope without Amazon's intervention, but this could well raise the barriers to entry for new brands. It's really Amazon's job to keep fakes out off of its platform, and I think they should do the work themselves. I ordered 1 Gerber keychain multitool from Amazon awhile back, and I got 3 of them. The runner who grabbed the box didn't realize she/he grabbed a pack of 3. If they are operating at a pace where they get quantity wrong, just who at Amazon is going to take the time to inspect items and distinguish the fakes? This can be a serious problem, with potentially health damaging effects. There was a problem with knockoffs of a leading brand of electronic hearing protection. These knockoffs had electronics that were too slow to clamp down on noise signals, and so could actually amplify quite dangerous levels of noise for a few milliseconds. Just last night, I was watching a YouTube video about knockoff green laser pointers. It turns out, all of the cheaper ones tested leave out a necessary filter and so leak a lot of energy as invisible infrared light. This can be quite dangerous, as it's potentially eye damaging and yet invisible, so it's far too easy to expose yourself from a back reflection, without even knowing it. https://www.technologyreview.com/s/420214/the-danger-of-green-laser-pointers/ https://www.technologyreview.com/s/420214/the-danger-of-gree...

CharlesColeman 8y ago
> Furthermore, most of the knock offs really relied on also knocking off the branding of the original, so searching on the brand name very specifically found all of the knock offs. That's only one class of knock off, and the easiest kind to police. > If they are operating at a pace where they get quantity wrong, just who at Amazon is going to take the time to inspect items and distinguish the fakes? That's a really weird assertion, since Amazon's current practices are totally irrelevant. It also makes no sense to talk about order pickers being the key part of any solution. Amazon has total freedom to reform its business practices in all relevant parts of its organization to solve this problem, and I would argue it's their responsibility. Those changes would likely not be at the order fulfillment level, but at the SKU creation/inventory acquisition/seller account approval level. Personally, I think Amazon should completely separate Amazon Marketplace from their main online store, and push it onto an entirely different site that's excluded from searches by default. Then they should rework the FBA into a program that has very high standards and accountability, and make it the only way 3rd party sellers can get things listed on the main Amazon site.

behringer 8y ago

This isn't solving any problem user's have had. This is purely about knocking out the second hand market and unauthorized resellers.