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I saw so many places falling for this fallacy. Instead on working on the core products, engineers would have "fun" adding more microservices, redundant Kuberne

I saw so many places falling for this fallacy. Instead on working on the core products, engineers would have "fun" adding more microservices, redundant Kubernetes clusters, istio controllers etc etc. (all of that with less than 10 users).

otabdeveloper1 8y ago
Nobody ever got promoted or a raise because the core product 'just works'. As an engineer, you need growth in headcount or complexity if you want a raise. It's a people management problem that flows from the CEO and form the HR department, not a technical one.
- expertentipp 8y ago
  One gets fired when everything „just works”. Everything works (untils it stops working) so your job is done, what are you doing even during your office hours? I wish having a „technical manager” would avoid such situations but it’s enough if this „technical manager” hates the whole domain you work in.
collyw 8y ago
When people start adding micro services (or whatever the fad is this month) ask "why?" "Because it scales" "But we don't have a scaling problem, and if we did it could easily be solved with some caching". Unfortunately there is also the bullshit which is hiring in this industry, where solving things the simple way doesn't add anything interesting to your CV.
- VBprogrammer 8y ago
  People who underestimate the challenges adding caching can cause make me a bit nervous. Especially when you start putting caches on top of caches. You can end up with a hunt which cache has the incorrect value problem.
- jordanbeiber 8y ago
  Just my 2c regarding ”microservices” or SOA, whatever you want to call it, is that, sure it can enable you to scale horizontally from a technical perspective, but few have to deal with those problems for real. What it does though when organically implemented, is it allows you to scale dev teams more easilly and it will also let you build functionallity and features more rapidly for an ever evolving business. This is my take-away from two massive undertakings at two separate medium-to-large scale enterprises that I’ve been involved in. One was a complete failure and one an enormous success that both have had business altering implications.
lykr0n 8y ago
I had an argument with a co-worker about this. He wanted to use Kubernetes, so I asked him what problem he was trying to solve. No answer- just wanted to because he could put it on his resume. You deploy tech to solve a problem. Don't go solving problems that you don't have yet.
- mirceal 8y ago
  there is a time and place to experiment with new technology. i am a big fan of using proven technology + KISS, but also like for people to experiment with new technology in a low pressure/learning environment. people using something just to put it on their resume is a huuge red flag to me.
- miki123211 8y ago
  That, actually, is a bigger problem. Some people are using things not for the benefit of the thing they're building, but for their own (AKA resumes).
- oblio 8y ago
  > No answer - just wanted to because he could put it on his resume. Is it his fault that the incentives are borked?
Cthulhu_ 8y ago
Same; one project I was at was a lot of marketing talk, but after a year and a half of development they still had no working software, a big microservices architecture with a full-time infrastructure automation team and three developer teams, but no architect or person with the big (technical) picture in mind, no monitoring, no tracing, some logging (ELK stack) but no logging standards, etc. If they had just started with a normal Java application and idk, tossed it on App Engine they would've been live within six months at a fraction of the cost.

otabdeveloper1 8y ago

Nobody ever got promoted or a raise because the core product 'just works'. As an engineer, you need growth in headcount or complexity if you want a raise. It's a people management problem that flows from the CEO and form the HR department, not a technical one.

expertentipp 8y ago
One gets fired when everything „just works”. Everything works (untils it stops working) so your job is done, what are you doing even during your office hours? I wish having a „technical manager” would avoid such situations but it’s enough if this „technical manager” hates the whole domain you work in.

collyw 8y ago

When people start adding micro services (or whatever the fad is this month) ask "why?" "Because it scales" "But we don't have a scaling problem, and if we did it could easily be solved with some caching". Unfortunately there is also the bullshit which is hiring in this industry, where solving things the simple way doesn't add anything interesting to your CV.

VBprogrammer 8y ago
People who underestimate the challenges adding caching can cause make me a bit nervous. Especially when you start putting caches on top of caches. You can end up with a hunt which cache has the incorrect value problem.
jordanbeiber 8y ago
Just my 2c regarding ”microservices” or SOA, whatever you want to call it, is that, sure it can enable you to scale horizontally from a technical perspective, but few have to deal with those problems for real. What it does though when organically implemented, is it allows you to scale dev teams more easilly and it will also let you build functionallity and features more rapidly for an ever evolving business. This is my take-away from two massive undertakings at two separate medium-to-large scale enterprises that I’ve been involved in. One was a complete failure and one an enormous success that both have had business altering implications.

lykr0n 8y ago

I had an argument with a co-worker about this. He wanted to use Kubernetes, so I asked him what problem he was trying to solve. No answer- just wanted to because he could put it on his resume. You deploy tech to solve a problem. Don't go solving problems that you don't have yet.

mirceal 8y ago
there is a time and place to experiment with new technology. i am a big fan of using proven technology + KISS, but also like for people to experiment with new technology in a low pressure/learning environment. people using something just to put it on their resume is a huuge red flag to me.
miki123211 8y ago
That, actually, is a bigger problem. Some people are using things not for the benefit of the thing they're building, but for their own (AKA resumes).
oblio 8y ago
> No answer - just wanted to because he could put it on his resume. Is it his fault that the incentives are borked?

Cthulhu_ 8y ago

Same; one project I was at was a lot of marketing talk, but after a year and a half of development they still had no working software, a big microservices architecture with a full-time infrastructure automation team and three developer teams, but no architect or person with the big (technical) picture in mind, no monitoring, no tracing, some logging (ELK stack) but no logging standards, etc. If they had just started with a normal Java application and idk, tossed it on App Engine they would've been live within six months at a fraction of the cost.