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A gun is a tool. Anybody can use a tool correctly and anybody can use a tool incorrectly. Any tool can be bought legally and illegally. People who do not follow

A gun is a tool. Anybody can use a tool correctly and anybody can use a tool incorrectly. Any tool can be bought legally and illegally. People who do not follow laws will have an advantage against those who do in terms of available tools. A gun is a tool, but it is a tool with one use; wounding and killing organisms. A gun when used correctly, as designed and intended, is a ranged lethal weapon. A knife or a hammer, a car, or even a flamethrower have uses which don’t involve hurting or killing anything, and your point stands for them. If you’re killing someone with a car, you’ve misused your tool, but if you kill with a gun you’ve used it correctly.

stevenicr 8y ago
> A gun is a tool, but it is a tool with one use; wounding and killing organisms. This is kind of true, it depends on the ammo used of course. However I think they have multiple uses, and from what I have seen they are mostly used as a deterrent and sometimes as a compliance tool. If it's a pistol on the hip of an armored car runner or security guard, it's existence is a deterrent - and there is a definite difference when people see an armed guard and a 'rent-a-cop / mall security with a whistle' - Cops often use guns to threaten in order to get compliance in their orders. I suppose it's the same at military bases and prisons - they are used everyday to deter people not used everyday to kill people. Of course this tool can be used to deter good things and to force compliance for nefarious things like armed robbery so it's not a tool that is always used for good or in good ways. I would guess if stats could really be made - they are mostly used for target practice at paper and cans as such when being used, unless you consider them being on display at various places like courthouses as being in use. So it's a tool with more than one use imho. Not the best tool for the job they are often used in sadly.
- gotocake 8y ago
  Police and for that matter anyone in law enforcement are trained to draw and aim only when they intent to use the gun. Using a gun for anything other than shooting is how you either escalate a situation or how people are (too often) shot with their own guns. It is also a felony to use a gun as a threat or coercive tool, and it’s called ‘Brandishing’. Police don’t threaten with a gun outside of Hollywood. They offer a verbal warning, and if you don’t comply (and sometimes if you do) they will fire. You never draw your gun unless you intend to use it. You never point your gun at anything you don’t intend to destroy. Treat all guns as loaded. Anyone who hasn’t had that drilled into them has no business owning a firearm of any kind. Such a person is most likely to hurt themselves or someone else, or have their gun taken from them and used against them.
  - stevenicr 8y ago
    Oh how I wish you were right on all this. > Police and for that matter anyone in law enforcement are trained to draw and aim only when they intent to use the gun. Which police are you describing? I would not mind this being true, but from my experiences on the east coast I don't think this is true of most law enforcement, unless you mean to say that drawing it to use as a coercive tool is the "intent to use" - It may be a felony to stick a gun to someone's head and threaten them with violence if they do not comply with what you say - however I think that is not applied often. Most cops are not charged with that if they do it, and most criminals at that level are not ratted out either. > Police don’t threaten with a gun outside of Hollywood. I have seen just that, many times. Again I wish you were right, but it's not true, and I'm sorry you believe that. Maybe things are different in your hometown and you don't worry about traveling. I agree with not drawing unless you are prepared to use, and do not point at things that you would not be okay with destroying, and all guns are loaded. Those parts of your comment I believe are true. However I still believe that people having a firearm without shooting it is still a use. Yes sometimes the appearance of one may be escalating, but often times one being visible (eg a soldier holding an m16 pointed at the ground, a bank guard with firearm in holster) does deter other violence from occurring. edit for formatting - had to hit enter after quote.
giancarlostoro 8y ago
> If you’re killing someone with a car, you’ve misused your tool, but if you kill with a gun you’ve used it correctly. Murdering someone is never the correct use for a gun. Killing in self defense or under circumstances of war is another matter. For the sake of my discussion of guns I'll define murder vs killing: Murder is a premeditated kill, you hate someone, you intend to kill them. Killing, is just what everyone thinks it is, taking the life away from some animal or person. I've seen numerous cases where men and women with legal access to weapons have stopped bad actors from either shooting up total strangers, or trying to rob them, or worse. I've even seen plenty of videos of attempted break-ins to peoples homes. Switzerland has plenty of guns, and their crime rate has lowered, and knives are much more common as a murder weapon now there. It's not the tool that deserves the blame, it's the mental state of the person, and without addressing that, and targeting issues that affect people (like pharmaceutical companies) we will never get to resolve the real problem.
- gotocake 8y ago
  Murdering someone is never the correct use for a gun. Killing in self defense or under circumstances of war is another matter. You just moved the goalposts from what I said, killing, to murder. I never once used the word murder, and I didn’t even specify humans. Please discuss this with integrity.
JoeAltmaier 8y ago
So? Not sure how that matters. Japan mass murders are with car or knife, probably because that's the 'tool' at hand.
- gotocake 8y ago
  I’d take Japan’s rate of mass killings and average casualties per incident over ours any day of the week, wouldn’t you?
  - JoeAltmaier 8y ago
    Not if I had to live in Japan, or be Japanese. They are a very different, extremely paternal society. You would expect different social statistics there vs an extremely independent Egalitarian society. America is the way it is, because its full of Americans. Until we change what that means, we don't change anything.

stevenicr 8y ago

> A gun is a tool, but it is a tool with one use; wounding and killing organisms. This is kind of true, it depends on the ammo used of course. However I think they have multiple uses, and from what I have seen they are mostly used as a deterrent and sometimes as a compliance tool. If it's a pistol on the hip of an armored car runner or security guard, it's existence is a deterrent - and there is a definite difference when people see an armed guard and a 'rent-a-cop / mall security with a whistle' - Cops often use guns to threaten in order to get compliance in their orders. I suppose it's the same at military bases and prisons - they are used everyday to deter people not used everyday to kill people. Of course this tool can be used to deter good things and to force compliance for nefarious things like armed robbery so it's not a tool that is always used for good or in good ways. I would guess if stats could really be made - they are mostly used for target practice at paper and cans as such when being used, unless you consider them being on display at various places like courthouses as being in use. So it's a tool with more than one use imho. Not the best tool for the job they are often used in sadly.

gotocake 8y ago
Police and for that matter anyone in law enforcement are trained to draw and aim only when they intent to use the gun. Using a gun for anything other than shooting is how you either escalate a situation or how people are (too often) shot with their own guns. It is also a felony to use a gun as a threat or coercive tool, and it’s called ‘Brandishing’. Police don’t threaten with a gun outside of Hollywood. They offer a verbal warning, and if you don’t comply (and sometimes if you do) they will fire. You never draw your gun unless you intend to use it. You never point your gun at anything you don’t intend to destroy. Treat all guns as loaded. Anyone who hasn’t had that drilled into them has no business owning a firearm of any kind. Such a person is most likely to hurt themselves or someone else, or have their gun taken from them and used against them.
- stevenicr 8y ago
  Oh how I wish you were right on all this. > Police and for that matter anyone in law enforcement are trained to draw and aim only when they intent to use the gun. Which police are you describing? I would not mind this being true, but from my experiences on the east coast I don't think this is true of most law enforcement, unless you mean to say that drawing it to use as a coercive tool is the "intent to use" - It may be a felony to stick a gun to someone's head and threaten them with violence if they do not comply with what you say - however I think that is not applied often. Most cops are not charged with that if they do it, and most criminals at that level are not ratted out either. > Police don’t threaten with a gun outside of Hollywood. I have seen just that, many times. Again I wish you were right, but it's not true, and I'm sorry you believe that. Maybe things are different in your hometown and you don't worry about traveling. I agree with not drawing unless you are prepared to use, and do not point at things that you would not be okay with destroying, and all guns are loaded. Those parts of your comment I believe are true. However I still believe that people having a firearm without shooting it is still a use. Yes sometimes the appearance of one may be escalating, but often times one being visible (eg a soldier holding an m16 pointed at the ground, a bank guard with firearm in holster) does deter other violence from occurring. edit for formatting - had to hit enter after quote.

giancarlostoro 8y ago

> If you’re killing someone with a car, you’ve misused your tool, but if you kill with a gun you’ve used it correctly. Murdering someone is never the correct use for a gun. Killing in self defense or under circumstances of war is another matter. For the sake of my discussion of guns I'll define murder vs killing: Murder is a premeditated kill, you hate someone, you intend to kill them. Killing, is just what everyone thinks it is, taking the life away from some animal or person. I've seen numerous cases where men and women with legal access to weapons have stopped bad actors from either shooting up total strangers, or trying to rob them, or worse. I've even seen plenty of videos of attempted break-ins to peoples homes. Switzerland has plenty of guns, and their crime rate has lowered, and knives are much more common as a murder weapon now there. It's not the tool that deserves the blame, it's the mental state of the person, and without addressing that, and targeting issues that affect people (like pharmaceutical companies) we will never get to resolve the real problem.

gotocake 8y ago
Murdering someone is never the correct use for a gun. Killing in self defense or under circumstances of war is another matter. You just moved the goalposts from what I said, killing, to murder. I never once used the word murder, and I didn’t even specify humans. Please discuss this with integrity.

JoeAltmaier 8y ago

So? Not sure how that matters. Japan mass murders are with car or knife, probably because that's the 'tool' at hand.

gotocake 8y ago
I’d take Japan’s rate of mass killings and average casualties per incident over ours any day of the week, wouldn’t you?
- JoeAltmaier 8y ago
  Not if I had to live in Japan, or be Japanese. They are a very different, extremely paternal society. You would expect different social statistics there vs an extremely independent Egalitarian society. America is the way it is, because its full of Americans. Until we change what that means, we don't change anything.