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Number of models is irrelevant, being able to buy the same car badged as VW/Audi/Skoda/Seat is just price discrimination and adds no value. A real-world compari

Number of models is irrelevant, being able to buy the same car badged as VW/Audi/Skoda/Seat is just price discrimination and adds no value. A real-world comparison of charging speeds is still an open question. The next generation of Tesla superchargers goes live in 4 days and will work with actual cars on the road. By the time actual roll-out is done we'll have to see who has the better network. Hopefully it starts to standardize more between them all because right now Tesla is well ahead in the charging network. But the biggest advantage is not that. It's having electrical motors that are cheaper, lighter and more powerful (Munro has a great slide on that). It's having cells that are cheaper to build and better integrated (Munro was apparently blown away). It's having power electronics that are better. That's the kind of advantage that makes for higher margins and better products. I'd love it for others to surpass it, but it hasn't happened yet. I'm not particularly in favor of Tesla, just EVs for several reasons. I do hope all the traditional manufacturers come out with great EVs. They just haven't yet.

clouddrover 8y ago
> The next generation of Tesla superchargers goes live in 4 days and will work with actual cars on the road. 350 kW chargers are already rolling out on the Ionity, Fastned, and Electrify America networks. They use the CCS standard. They already work with cars on the road: https://insideevs.com/first-ionity-350-kw-chargers-denmark/ https://insideevs.com/first-ionity-350-kw-chargers-denmark/ https://fastned.nl/nl/blog/post/everything-you-ve-always-wanted-to-know-about-fast-charging https://fastned.nl/nl/blog/post/everything-you-ve-always-wan... https://insideevs.com/here-are-the-350-kw-nad-150-kw-abb-chargers-for-electrify-america/ https://insideevs.com/here-are-the-350-kw-nad-150-kw-abb-cha... Why is Tesla so far behind?
- pedrocr 8y ago
  I don't know of a single car that you can buy that takes 350kW. In fact I don't know of a single car that you can buy that charges at higher rates than the Teslas. And you keep doubling down on charging rates as if that was the single metric by which to compare manufacturers and conveniently ignore all the other stuff I've pointed out.
  - clouddrover 8y ago
    > I don't know of a single car that you can buy that takes 350kW. Volkswagen knows. They'll sell you a Porsche Taycan. Then they'll sell you an Audi e-tron GT: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tMEdiq2xTbQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tMEdiq2xTbQ And then they'll sell you a Porsche Macan: https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/porsche-macan-electric-only-official/ https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/porsche-macan-electric-on... Better planning, bigger scale. Meanwhile Tesla is still losing money. They were down $1 billion in 2018: https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1121240_tesla-turned-profit-at-the-end-of-2018-ends-year-down-model-y-coming-by-end-of-2020 https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1121240_tesla-turned-pr... When will Tesla's technology be profitable? The closure of the retail stores doesn't inspire confidence.
    - vancan1ty 8y ago
      Researched each of those models -- none of them are actually available for purchase currently as best I can tell.
    - lorenzorhoades 8y ago
      you can make a 1000KWH car, and still be much less efficient than a 250KWH car. Range and speed is what matters not KWH. Aerodynamic, efficiency of enerygy conversion, etc.. comes into play.
jakobegger 8y ago
> Number of models is irrelevant No it's not. Right now, there just is no EV "family car". I would love to buy a model 3, but with that ridiculous trunk there's just no way I could fit my kids stuff in there. All the EVs currently being built (or announced) are just commuter cars. Sedans and small SUVs are great for driving to work on your own, but I think it'll be really awkward to go on a skiing trip with a family of 4 in a Model 3 or in a Nissan Leaf or whatever. (technically there's the Nissan eNV, but that car is hideous) Maybe Volkswagen will be the company that finally builds a practical EV...
- clouddrover 8y ago
  Maybe you need a VW bus. Lots of room. One for home: https://www.autoblog.com/2018/07/19/volkswagen-id-buzz-crozz-us-production/ https://www.autoblog.com/2018/07/19/volkswagen-id-buzz-crozz... And one for work: https://jalopnik.com/the-volkswagen-i-d-buzz-cargo-is-the-future-of-home-de-1830681651 https://jalopnik.com/the-volkswagen-i-d-buzz-cargo-is-the-fu... And a dune buggy for the weekends: https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1121245_volkswagen-confirms-electric-dune-buggy-concept-for-geneva-auto-show https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1121245_volkswagen-conf...
- pedrocr 8y ago
  You're ignoring my point. Having different models is obviously great for different uses. Hence S/X/3/Y/etc. Number of models is irrelevant when it's a bunch of different versions of a VW Golf like you get with VW/Audi/Skoda/Seat/etc.
  - clouddrover 8y ago
    > Number of models is irrelevant when it's a bunch of different versions of a VW Golf It isn't a bunch of Golfs. It's hatchbacks, crossovers, and buses built on the same modular platform: http://newsroom.vw.com/vehicles/future-cars/official-the-vw-bus-is-back-and-its-electric/ http://newsroom.vw.com/vehicles/future-cars/official-the-vw-... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQut6ks3nSY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQut6ks3nSY

clouddrover 8y ago

> The next generation of Tesla superchargers goes live in 4 days and will work with actual cars on the road. 350 kW chargers are already rolling out on the Ionity, Fastned, and Electrify America networks. They use the CCS standard. They already work with cars on the road: https://insideevs.com/first-ionity-350-kw-chargers-denmark/ https://insideevs.com/first-ionity-350-kw-chargers-denmark/ https://fastned.nl/nl/blog/post/everything-you-ve-always-wanted-to-know-about-fast-charging https://fastned.nl/nl/blog/post/everything-you-ve-always-wan... https://insideevs.com/here-are-the-350-kw-nad-150-kw-abb-chargers-for-electrify-america/ https://insideevs.com/here-are-the-350-kw-nad-150-kw-abb-cha... Why is Tesla so far behind?

pedrocr 8y ago
I don't know of a single car that you can buy that takes 350kW. In fact I don't know of a single car that you can buy that charges at higher rates than the Teslas. And you keep doubling down on charging rates as if that was the single metric by which to compare manufacturers and conveniently ignore all the other stuff I've pointed out.
- clouddrover 8y ago
  > I don't know of a single car that you can buy that takes 350kW. Volkswagen knows. They'll sell you a Porsche Taycan. Then they'll sell you an Audi e-tron GT: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tMEdiq2xTbQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tMEdiq2xTbQ And then they'll sell you a Porsche Macan: https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/porsche-macan-electric-only-official/ https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/porsche-macan-electric-on... Better planning, bigger scale. Meanwhile Tesla is still losing money. They were down $1 billion in 2018: https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1121240_tesla-turned-profit-at-the-end-of-2018-ends-year-down-model-y-coming-by-end-of-2020 https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1121240_tesla-turned-pr... When will Tesla's technology be profitable? The closure of the retail stores doesn't inspire confidence.
  - vancan1ty 8y ago
    Researched each of those models -- none of them are actually available for purchase currently as best I can tell.
  - lorenzorhoades 8y ago
    you can make a 1000KWH car, and still be much less efficient than a 250KWH car. Range and speed is what matters not KWH. Aerodynamic, efficiency of enerygy conversion, etc.. comes into play.

jakobegger 8y ago

> Number of models is irrelevant No it's not. Right now, there just is no EV "family car". I would love to buy a model 3, but with that ridiculous trunk there's just no way I could fit my kids stuff in there. All the EVs currently being built (or announced) are just commuter cars. Sedans and small SUVs are great for driving to work on your own, but I think it'll be really awkward to go on a skiing trip with a family of 4 in a Model 3 or in a Nissan Leaf or whatever. (technically there's the Nissan eNV, but that car is hideous) Maybe Volkswagen will be the company that finally builds a practical EV...

clouddrover 8y ago
Maybe you need a VW bus. Lots of room. One for home: https://www.autoblog.com/2018/07/19/volkswagen-id-buzz-crozz-us-production/ https://www.autoblog.com/2018/07/19/volkswagen-id-buzz-crozz... And one for work: https://jalopnik.com/the-volkswagen-i-d-buzz-cargo-is-the-future-of-home-de-1830681651 https://jalopnik.com/the-volkswagen-i-d-buzz-cargo-is-the-fu... And a dune buggy for the weekends: https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1121245_volkswagen-confirms-electric-dune-buggy-concept-for-geneva-auto-show https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1121245_volkswagen-conf...
pedrocr 8y ago
You're ignoring my point. Having different models is obviously great for different uses. Hence S/X/3/Y/etc. Number of models is irrelevant when it's a bunch of different versions of a VW Golf like you get with VW/Audi/Skoda/Seat/etc.
- clouddrover 8y ago
  > Number of models is irrelevant when it's a bunch of different versions of a VW Golf It isn't a bunch of Golfs. It's hatchbacks, crossovers, and buses built on the same modular platform: http://newsroom.vw.com/vehicles/future-cars/official-the-vw-bus-is-back-and-its-electric/ http://newsroom.vw.com/vehicles/future-cars/official-the-vw-... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQut6ks3nSY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQut6ks3nSY