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India Loses Dogfight, and Questions Arise About Its ‘Vintage’ Military

19 points by ilamont 8y ago

nitinreddy88 8y ago
How we are quoting it as "Loses" Dogfight. Indian Air Force (IAF) MiG 21 shot down PAK F16. In return MiG 21 was shot down by other F16. I agree that IAF needs immediate replacement with latest generation fighters.
- hiyer 8y ago
  Pakistan has denied this, though India - and a few Pakistanis [1] - claim that Pakistan is lying to save its F16 contract with USA. 1. https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/abhinandan-downed-f16-pilot-died-media-was-censored-pak-lawyer-in-london/articleshow/68237172.cms https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/abhinandan-downed-...
- Cookingboy 8y ago
  So far there have been no evidence that a PAK F16 was downed by IAF, not saying it didn't happen, but Pakistan has denied it and India hasn't supplied any evidences either.
  - LearnProg17 8y ago
    The evidence has been provided in Media too.
  - amriksohata 8y ago
    https://www.news18.com/news/india/india-shares-f-16-evidence-with-us-to-highlight-misuse-says-brigade-and-battalion-hqs-were-targeted-2053143.html https://www.news18.com/news/india/india-shares-f-16-evidence...
rtdp 8y ago
In print, this article is titled - "India’s Military, Ailing and Poor, Nears Its Brink.". While above is the title to make it a clickbait in the online edition.
samx18 8y ago
To be clear - they shot down one F-16 with their aging MIG 21. Pakistan has a habit of denying everything. They denied Bin Laden's presence, but guess what...
devoply 8y ago
India is the new USA proxy, Pakistan having lost that privileged by aligning with China, and Pakistan is the new China proxy. This will end badly for both of them. India will spend billions on military with huge armament upgrades from uncle Sam. It will get into conflicts it could've easily avoided and it will probably hurt its economy doing so in the long run. Only idiots become proxies of superpowers who don't have friends only interests. Chinese claim their plane was used to down the Indian plane. China will probably arm Pakistan to the brink as well. India will be dealing solely with Pakistan. https://www.scmp.com/news/china/military/article/2188196/did-pakistan-use-its-chinese-jf-17-jets-shoot-down-indian-planes https://www.scmp.com/news/china/military/article/2188196/did...
- sssk 8y ago
  good thing is unca Sam doesn't have a monopoly for indian arms contracts. India's arms contracts are spread across Russia, France, Israel, USA. And quite a lot of indigenisation is in progress.
- godelmachine 8y ago
  Forgive me for being so bold as to call you an utterly ignorant person, devoid of any ground realities of South Asian politics. If history is anything to go by, India has never been anyone’s proxy. Pakistan allowed its land to be used as military bases for US during wars and also peace times. They armed the Mujahideen’s to the teeth with assistance from CIA to wage proxy war against USSR. It’s a known fact that the most murderous terrorists in the world find safe havens in Pakistan, bin Laden being one among them. Furthermore, the top brass of military and ISI establishment is in cahoots with these terrorists. That sir, is what you call a proxy. Remind me of one instance where India allowed foreign powers to use its land or resources for anything that would serve a foreign powers purpose? I don’t know your allegiance but all of your comments are pro-Pakistani + Anti-India. As far as things ending badly is concerned, be rest assured, India is sensible enough to fend-off on its own. Ever since it’s independence it has managed to hold itself well in world politics, whereas Pakistan, if anything, has made a strong impression of warmongering + biggest terror exporting country.
  - 8y ago
amriksohata 8y ago
Loses dogfight? India presented evidence of shot down f16 parts to the USA as Pakistan was given them for offensives against terrorists only and not other nations. If anything, India went into Pakistani territory unnoticed, when Pakistan tried it they couldn't even cross the border, intact wing commander Abhinandan pushed them well back into their own territory which is why he landed on their side.
- amriksohata 8y ago
  https://www.news18.com/news/india/india-shares-f-16-evidence-with-us-to-highlight-misuse-says-brigade-and-battalion-hqs-were-targeted-2053143.html https://www.news18.com/news/india/india-shares-f-16-evidence...
tim333 8y ago
I think there is something to be said for having a 'vintage military.' After all it's prime purpose should be to defend the country against invasion and if that job is done further funds should perhaps be spent on health education etc. rather than the latest killing machines.
LyndsySimon 8y ago
My assumption was that India was probably using the MiG-21s as “bait”, while their Su-30s were firing from BVR.

19 points by ilamont 8y ago

How we are quoting it as "Loses" Dogfight. Indian Air Force (IAF) MiG 21 shot down PAK F16. In return MiG 21 was shot down by other F16. I agree that IAF needs immediate replacement with latest generation fighters.

hiyer 8y ago
Pakistan has denied this, though India - and a few Pakistanis [1] - claim that Pakistan is lying to save its F16 contract with USA. 1. https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/abhinandan-downed-f16-pilot-died-media-was-censored-pak-lawyer-in-london/articleshow/68237172.cms https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/abhinandan-downed-...
Cookingboy 8y ago
So far there have been no evidence that a PAK F16 was downed by IAF, not saying it didn't happen, but Pakistan has denied it and India hasn't supplied any evidences either.
- LearnProg17 8y ago
  The evidence has been provided in Media too.
- amriksohata 8y ago
  https://www.news18.com/news/india/india-shares-f-16-evidence-with-us-to-highlight-misuse-says-brigade-and-battalion-hqs-were-targeted-2053143.html https://www.news18.com/news/india/india-shares-f-16-evidence...

rtdp 8y ago

In print, this article is titled - "India’s Military, Ailing and Poor, Nears Its Brink.". While above is the title to make it a clickbait in the online edition.

samx18 8y ago

To be clear - they shot down one F-16 with their aging MIG 21. Pakistan has a habit of denying everything. They denied Bin Laden's presence, but guess what...

devoply 8y ago

India is the new USA proxy, Pakistan having lost that privileged by aligning with China, and Pakistan is the new China proxy. This will end badly for both of them. India will spend billions on military with huge armament upgrades from uncle Sam. It will get into conflicts it could've easily avoided and it will probably hurt its economy doing so in the long run. Only idiots become proxies of superpowers who don't have friends only interests. Chinese claim their plane was used to down the Indian plane. China will probably arm Pakistan to the brink as well. India will be dealing solely with Pakistan. https://www.scmp.com/news/china/military/article/2188196/did-pakistan-use-its-chinese-jf-17-jets-shoot-down-indian-planes https://www.scmp.com/news/china/military/article/2188196/did...

sssk 8y ago
good thing is unca Sam doesn't have a monopoly for indian arms contracts. India's arms contracts are spread across Russia, France, Israel, USA. And quite a lot of indigenisation is in progress.
godelmachine 8y ago
Forgive me for being so bold as to call you an utterly ignorant person, devoid of any ground realities of South Asian politics. If history is anything to go by, India has never been anyone’s proxy. Pakistan allowed its land to be used as military bases for US during wars and also peace times. They armed the Mujahideen’s to the teeth with assistance from CIA to wage proxy war against USSR. It’s a known fact that the most murderous terrorists in the world find safe havens in Pakistan, bin Laden being one among them. Furthermore, the top brass of military and ISI establishment is in cahoots with these terrorists. That sir, is what you call a proxy. Remind me of one instance where India allowed foreign powers to use its land or resources for anything that would serve a foreign powers purpose? I don’t know your allegiance but all of your comments are pro-Pakistani + Anti-India. As far as things ending badly is concerned, be rest assured, India is sensible enough to fend-off on its own. Ever since it’s independence it has managed to hold itself well in world politics, whereas Pakistan, if anything, has made a strong impression of warmongering + biggest terror exporting country.
- 8y ago

amriksohata 8y ago

Loses dogfight? India presented evidence of shot down f16 parts to the USA as Pakistan was given them for offensives against terrorists only and not other nations. If anything, India went into Pakistani territory unnoticed, when Pakistan tried it they couldn't even cross the border, intact wing commander Abhinandan pushed them well back into their own territory which is why he landed on their side.

amriksohata 8y ago
https://www.news18.com/news/india/india-shares-f-16-evidence-with-us-to-highlight-misuse-says-brigade-and-battalion-hqs-were-targeted-2053143.html https://www.news18.com/news/india/india-shares-f-16-evidence...

tim333 8y ago

I think there is something to be said for having a 'vintage military.' After all it's prime purpose should be to defend the country against invasion and if that job is done further funds should perhaps be spent on health education etc. rather than the latest killing machines.

LyndsySimon 8y ago

My assumption was that India was probably using the MiG-21s as “bait”, while their Su-30s were firing from BVR.