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This makes no sense. You can't be ahead in the market by making announcements while shipping less product. That they will in the future deliver more options at

This makes no sense. You can't be ahead in the market by making announcements while shipping less product. That they will in the future deliver more options at more scale is your prediction. I hope it works out but it remains to be seen.

clouddrover 8y ago
It will work out. It's not like these cars aren't being tested now. Watch a test of the first MEB based VW model which will go into production at the end of this year: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2Tqw9LX3QE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2Tqw9LX3QE
- pedrocr 8y ago
  I've followed the announcements and reviews. There is no doubt they will launch the cars, it's your prediction of market success that remains to be tested. So far no one has come up with a drive train that rivals Tesla in power and efficiency. Everyone is either having to install more batteries for the same range and/or having less power. Tesla's advantage is not only in having more cars out in the market, it's even more so in having better technology than anyone else in the batteries, motors and electronics. See the Munro interviews if you want details on those. I do hope quite a few other existing car manufacturers get there as well but my point stands, they are behind in EV technology and if they don't catch up the writing is on the wall. The fact that VW is making massive investments is just more evidence of that. Most others are not even doing that much as far as we know.
  - clouddrover 8y ago
    > they are behind in EV technology When will Teslas take a 350 kW charge? Porsche is doing that this year. How many models will Tesla have available in 2022?
    - pedrocr 8y ago
      Number of models is irrelevant, being able to buy the same car badged as VW/Audi/Skoda/Seat is just price discrimination and adds no value. A real-world comparison of charging speeds is still an open question. The next generation of Tesla superchargers goes live in 4 days and will work with actual cars on the road. By the time actual roll-out is done we'll have to see who has the better network. Hopefully it starts to standardize more between them all because right now Tesla is well ahead in the charging network. But the biggest advantage is not that. It's having electrical motors that are cheaper, lighter and more powerful (Munro has a great slide on that). It's having cells that are cheaper to build and better integrated (Munro was apparently blown away). It's having power electronics that are better. That's the kind of advantage that makes for higher margins and better products. I'd love it for others to surpass it, but it hasn't happened yet. I'm not particularly in favor of Tesla, just EVs for several reasons. I do hope all the traditional manufacturers come out with great EVs. They just haven't yet.
      - clouddrover 8y ago
        > The next generation of Tesla superchargers goes live in 4 days and will work with actual cars on the road. 350 kW chargers are already rolling out on the Ionity, Fastned, and Electrify America networks. They use the CCS standard. They already work with cars on the road: https://insideevs.com/first-ionity-350-kw-chargers-denmark/ https://insideevs.com/first-ionity-350-kw-chargers-denmark/ https://fastned.nl/nl/blog/post/everything-you-ve-always-wanted-to-know-about-fast-charging https://fastned.nl/nl/blog/post/everything-you-ve-always-wan... https://insideevs.com/here-are-the-350-kw-nad-150-kw-abb-chargers-for-electrify-america/ https://insideevs.com/here-are-the-350-kw-nad-150-kw-abb-cha... Why is Tesla so far behind?
        pedrocr 8y ago
        I don't know of a single car that you can buy that takes 350kW. In fact I don't know of a single car that you can buy that charges at higher rates than the Teslas. And you keep doubling down on charging rates as if that was the single metric by which to compare manufacturers and conveniently ignore all the other stuff I've pointed out.

clouddrover 8y ago

It will work out. It's not like these cars aren't being tested now. Watch a test of the first MEB based VW model which will go into production at the end of this year: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2Tqw9LX3QE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2Tqw9LX3QE

pedrocr 8y ago
I've followed the announcements and reviews. There is no doubt they will launch the cars, it's your prediction of market success that remains to be tested. So far no one has come up with a drive train that rivals Tesla in power and efficiency. Everyone is either having to install more batteries for the same range and/or having less power. Tesla's advantage is not only in having more cars out in the market, it's even more so in having better technology than anyone else in the batteries, motors and electronics. See the Munro interviews if you want details on those. I do hope quite a few other existing car manufacturers get there as well but my point stands, they are behind in EV technology and if they don't catch up the writing is on the wall. The fact that VW is making massive investments is just more evidence of that. Most others are not even doing that much as far as we know.
- clouddrover 8y ago
  > they are behind in EV technology When will Teslas take a 350 kW charge? Porsche is doing that this year. How many models will Tesla have available in 2022?
  - pedrocr 8y ago
    Number of models is irrelevant, being able to buy the same car badged as VW/Audi/Skoda/Seat is just price discrimination and adds no value. A real-world comparison of charging speeds is still an open question. The next generation of Tesla superchargers goes live in 4 days and will work with actual cars on the road. By the time actual roll-out is done we'll have to see who has the better network. Hopefully it starts to standardize more between them all because right now Tesla is well ahead in the charging network. But the biggest advantage is not that. It's having electrical motors that are cheaper, lighter and more powerful (Munro has a great slide on that). It's having cells that are cheaper to build and better integrated (Munro was apparently blown away). It's having power electronics that are better. That's the kind of advantage that makes for higher margins and better products. I'd love it for others to surpass it, but it hasn't happened yet. I'm not particularly in favor of Tesla, just EVs for several reasons. I do hope all the traditional manufacturers come out with great EVs. They just haven't yet.
    - clouddrover 8y ago
      > The next generation of Tesla superchargers goes live in 4 days and will work with actual cars on the road. 350 kW chargers are already rolling out on the Ionity, Fastned, and Electrify America networks. They use the CCS standard. They already work with cars on the road: https://insideevs.com/first-ionity-350-kw-chargers-denmark/ https://insideevs.com/first-ionity-350-kw-chargers-denmark/ https://fastned.nl/nl/blog/post/everything-you-ve-always-wanted-to-know-about-fast-charging https://fastned.nl/nl/blog/post/everything-you-ve-always-wan... https://insideevs.com/here-are-the-350-kw-nad-150-kw-abb-chargers-for-electrify-america/ https://insideevs.com/here-are-the-350-kw-nad-150-kw-abb-cha... Why is Tesla so far behind?
      - pedrocr 8y ago
        I don't know of a single car that you can buy that takes 350kW. In fact I don't know of a single car that you can buy that charges at higher rates than the Teslas. And you keep doubling down on charging rates as if that was the single metric by which to compare manufacturers and conveniently ignore all the other stuff I've pointed out.