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China did have ailing infrastructure. Entire cities with no bathrooms, no drainage systems, no solid roads, no road stripes, messy wires for electricity deliver

by NTDF9 8y ago

China did have ailing infrastructure. Entire cities with no bathrooms, no drainage systems, no solid roads, no road stripes, messy wires for electricity delivery. The only difference is that the govt there can do whatever they want and they decided that infrastructure is the way to go. American politicians don't have those visions of magnificient infrastructure any more. All they want to do is play divisive politics.

roenxi 8y ago
> American politicians don't have those visions of magnificient infrastructure any more. All they want to do is play divisive politics. Pinning it on politicians is somewhat fair, but the voters share responsibility on this one. They've made it pretty clear that if there is spare money in the budget it should be directed to checks US Federal Budget social security, healthcare and the military in that order. I suspect China's programs in those areas are not as advanced as America's. That leaves more financial room for infrastructure.
bogidon 8y ago
By ailing infrastructure I don’t merely mean poor infrastructure. I mean infrastructure that was originally a big investment and, one would hope, initially productive. I’m curious just how messy those wires were in 1960’s China. Sounds like they weren’t a huge investment and could be scrapped when it was time to actually build something. Maybe American politicians don’t dream of magnificent infrastructure because we don’t have a clear dream today. Five decades ago there were so many highways clearly worth paving, so many drying machines needing power. Most of the infrastructure we’d probably agree we need today (trains, renewable energy, whatever) isn’t enabaling radically new possibilities like the first highways or energy grids did, even though it’s clearly worth building. There also isn’t as much universal appeal for building Big due to the progress of environment awareness, for example. Politicians sell dreams and maybe our dream for infrastructure is too murky to give them strong footing.
- NTDF9 8y ago
  >> I’m curious just how messy those wires were in 1960’s China. Sounds like they weren’t a huge investment and could be scrapped when it was time to actually build something. During electrification of America, American cities were tiny. This vast emptiness enabled massive planned wiring of cities to hubs and power plants from great distances. China was already massively populated. The fact that they have so much electrification within 20 years is just amazing. >> Most of the infrastructure we’d probably agree we need today (trains, renewable energy, whatever) isn’t enabaling radically new possibilities like the first highways or energy grids did, even though it’s clearly worth building I'm not sure how you get this. Trains are a proven great enabler. Beijing to Shanghai is 4.5 hours for 800 miles. LA to SF is 5.5 hours for 400 miles. 4.5 hours without having car ownership quite literally enables people and goods to move around more rapidly, causing opportunity to meet capital and talent. I cannot describe how important this is. Renewable energy was a chance at creating another brand new manufacturing sector. The number of electric buses in Chinese cities are just mind boggling. It creates this massive industry of manufacturing and supplying parts, research, education in universities, smarter companies. America literally hemorrhaged this in favor of supporting rich buddies in oil. I'm sorry. Maybe its time for enough Americans to travel abroad to see how rapidly these countries have developed from their almost medieval lives only 40 years ago.
  - coliveira 8y ago
    The problem is that Americans don't travel. If they did they would see that America's infrastructure doesn't compare even with Europe's. In China they're reaching an entirely new level. Cars are going to 100% electric and there are trains everywhere. While this happens, I spend a good part of my day on congested roads which reduce my productive hours, full of cars stuck on last century's technology. And politicians in America still think it is funny to support the dying oil and auto industries.

by NTDF9 8y ago

roenxi 8y ago

> American politicians don't have those visions of magnificient infrastructure any more. All they want to do is play divisive politics. Pinning it on politicians is somewhat fair, but the voters share responsibility on this one. They've made it pretty clear that if there is spare money in the budget it should be directed to checks US Federal Budget social security, healthcare and the military in that order. I suspect China's programs in those areas are not as advanced as America's. That leaves more financial room for infrastructure.

bogidon 8y ago

By ailing infrastructure I don’t merely mean poor infrastructure. I mean infrastructure that was originally a big investment and, one would hope, initially productive. I’m curious just how messy those wires were in 1960’s China. Sounds like they weren’t a huge investment and could be scrapped when it was time to actually build something. Maybe American politicians don’t dream of magnificent infrastructure because we don’t have a clear dream today. Five decades ago there were so many highways clearly worth paving, so many drying machines needing power. Most of the infrastructure we’d probably agree we need today (trains, renewable energy, whatever) isn’t enabaling radically new possibilities like the first highways or energy grids did, even though it’s clearly worth building. There also isn’t as much universal appeal for building Big due to the progress of environment awareness, for example. Politicians sell dreams and maybe our dream for infrastructure is too murky to give them strong footing.

NTDF9 8y ago
>> I’m curious just how messy those wires were in 1960’s China. Sounds like they weren’t a huge investment and could be scrapped when it was time to actually build something. During electrification of America, American cities were tiny. This vast emptiness enabled massive planned wiring of cities to hubs and power plants from great distances. China was already massively populated. The fact that they have so much electrification within 20 years is just amazing. >> Most of the infrastructure we’d probably agree we need today (trains, renewable energy, whatever) isn’t enabaling radically new possibilities like the first highways or energy grids did, even though it’s clearly worth building I'm not sure how you get this. Trains are a proven great enabler. Beijing to Shanghai is 4.5 hours for 800 miles. LA to SF is 5.5 hours for 400 miles. 4.5 hours without having car ownership quite literally enables people and goods to move around more rapidly, causing opportunity to meet capital and talent. I cannot describe how important this is. Renewable energy was a chance at creating another brand new manufacturing sector. The number of electric buses in Chinese cities are just mind boggling. It creates this massive industry of manufacturing and supplying parts, research, education in universities, smarter companies. America literally hemorrhaged this in favor of supporting rich buddies in oil. I'm sorry. Maybe its time for enough Americans to travel abroad to see how rapidly these countries have developed from their almost medieval lives only 40 years ago.
- coliveira 8y ago
  The problem is that Americans don't travel. If they did they would see that America's infrastructure doesn't compare even with Europe's. In China they're reaching an entirely new level. Cars are going to 100% electric and there are trains everywhere. While this happens, I spend a good part of my day on congested roads which reduce my productive hours, full of cars stuck on last century's technology. And politicians in America still think it is funny to support the dying oil and auto industries.