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Why can't Mexico perform the basic state function of protecting its citizens from organized violence? Drug rehab may sound like a panacea, but as it's practice

Why can't Mexico perform the basic state function of protecting its citizens from organized violence? Drug rehab may sound like a panacea, but as it's practiced and administered in America, rehab centers seem to respond to their perverse incentive to treat addicts enough to get them out the door and relapsed back into treatment. I think we're doing a lot to treat addiction, but Mexico can't count on us to solve the hard problem of addiction. Mexico would be much better served by doing the comparatively easy task of reducing corruption and violence rates to something that reflects its status as a middle-income country with European institutions. Simply making it harder for cartels to thrive and for Mexican politicians/police to profit off of drugs would reduce the amount of drug pushing here in America.

joecool1029 8y ago
> Why can't Mexico perform the basic state function of protecting its citizens from organized violence? The drug cartel has better funding. This is why you see El Chapo housed in the US and not Mexico anymore.
- crowdpleaser 8y ago
  Do the drug cartels have better funding? Mexico's Federal Budget was $314 billion dollars last year, estimates put America's illegal drug expenditures in the region of $100 billion [0], I imagine a lot of that money stays within the country. But I don't see how it's possible for Mexican cartels have even 25% of the budget of the government. Why do you think the Mexican drug cartels have better funding than a government with a budget of $300 billion/yr? IIRC, El Chapo is in America because Mexican prisons couldn't contain him. All his prison breaks involved corrupt guards, in fact, during his trial it was claimed that El Chapo paid a $100 million dollar bribe to the sitting President of Mexico. I think it's more plausible that Mexicans would rather join in the festival of corruption, saying that the Government is outclassed by the resources of the cartels seems false. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illegal_drug_trade_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illegal_drug_trade_in_the_Unit...
  - magoghm 8y ago
    Most of the Mexico's federal budget isn't for protecting citizens from violent criminals, if I remember correctly the federal budget for "security" (police, army, navy, etc.) is less than $20 billion dollars.
chongli 8y ago
Why can't Mexico perform the basic state function of protecting its citizens from organized violence? Because the cartels have made so much money from drugs that they threaten Mexican sovereignty in a lot of regions. The cartels literally operate their own private armies capable of waging war against any government forces that try to police their regions. This is all due to the fact that the US economy is so big, its appetite for drugs so insatiable, and its arms industry so powerful that the Mexican government can't keep up.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
smileysteve 8y ago
The truth behind you question is that a significant amount of cartel power came from CIA policies in the 80s and 90s. Illegally funding the contra through cocaine sales is a proven thing in the 80s with confessions of continuing alliances in the the 90s. The second truth is that it doesn't help that the Spanish governed like they did or further that James K. Polk conspired with Santa Anna and started a war to "acquire" the West, or that the U.S. never paid its half of the deal.
thaumasiotes 8y ago
> Why can't Mexico perform the basic state function of protecting its citizens from organized violence? The basic state function is to protect citizens from unorganized violence. Fending off organized violence (other than from the state itself) is a goal, but it is frequently not achieved and often not attempted because it's so unrealistic. If Germany really wanted Luxembourg, it would take it, and Luxembourg wouldn't be able to stop it.
jerry1979 8y ago
I think part of the problem comes from the fact that stopping corruption takes effort, and when people have large differences in power relative to each other then basic state functions deteriorate. The United States seems to have power imbalances which lead to corruption. For example, see the Jerry Epstein case in Florida: https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/article220097825.html https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/article220097825.html Other examples might include the water problem in Flint, the deterioration of Detroit, or even the violence problem in South Chicago.
sjg007 8y ago
Rehabs expanded under the ACA due to the insurance coverage mandate. Quality however has always been suspect. Most rehabs are not evidence based and there are a whole bunch of very shady rehabs in Florida and other places.
rdiddly 8y ago
RE Mexican govt. protection: If you're the cartel and the police are giving you trouble in a certain area, you have some options: Bribe whoever needs bribing to make it stop. Brazenly shoot up the police station until they all quit. Murder everybody on the force and their families. Or offer to hire them all at 2-3 times the salary and murder the ones who refuse. This is what people are talking about when they say wealth inequality is a destabilizing influence. RE drug rehab: "Solving" drug addiction would be a sufficient, but unnecessary, way of stopping violence in Latin America. You don't have to tackle that whole big problem; all you have to do is legalize across the board. That makes drug production the province of legitimate businessmen right here in the US, not a vocation that only the poorest/most desperate/most violent/least risk-averse will take on.
arduanika 8y ago
> rehab centers seem to respond to their perverse incentive to treat addicts enough to get them out the door and relapsed back into treatment Interesting. Unrelatedly: how's OkCupid going for everyone?
- ouid 8y ago
  okcupid never pretended to be good at its job, merely ok.

joecool1029 8y ago

> Why can't Mexico perform the basic state function of protecting its citizens from organized violence? The drug cartel has better funding. This is why you see El Chapo housed in the US and not Mexico anymore.

crowdpleaser 8y ago
Do the drug cartels have better funding? Mexico's Federal Budget was $314 billion dollars last year, estimates put America's illegal drug expenditures in the region of $100 billion [0], I imagine a lot of that money stays within the country. But I don't see how it's possible for Mexican cartels have even 25% of the budget of the government. Why do you think the Mexican drug cartels have better funding than a government with a budget of $300 billion/yr? IIRC, El Chapo is in America because Mexican prisons couldn't contain him. All his prison breaks involved corrupt guards, in fact, during his trial it was claimed that El Chapo paid a $100 million dollar bribe to the sitting President of Mexico. I think it's more plausible that Mexicans would rather join in the festival of corruption, saying that the Government is outclassed by the resources of the cartels seems false. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illegal_drug_trade_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illegal_drug_trade_in_the_Unit...
- magoghm 8y ago
  Most of the Mexico's federal budget isn't for protecting citizens from violent criminals, if I remember correctly the federal budget for "security" (police, army, navy, etc.) is less than $20 billion dollars.

chongli 8y ago

Why can't Mexico perform the basic state function of protecting its citizens from organized violence? Because the cartels have made so much money from drugs that they threaten Mexican sovereignty in a lot of regions. The cartels literally operate their own private armies capable of waging war against any government forces that try to police their regions. This is all due to the fact that the US economy is so big, its appetite for drugs so insatiable, and its arms industry so powerful that the Mexican government can't keep up.

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

smileysteve 8y ago

The truth behind you question is that a significant amount of cartel power came from CIA policies in the 80s and 90s. Illegally funding the contra through cocaine sales is a proven thing in the 80s with confessions of continuing alliances in the the 90s. The second truth is that it doesn't help that the Spanish governed like they did or further that James K. Polk conspired with Santa Anna and started a war to "acquire" the West, or that the U.S. never paid its half of the deal.

thaumasiotes 8y ago

> Why can't Mexico perform the basic state function of protecting its citizens from organized violence? The basic state function is to protect citizens from unorganized violence. Fending off organized violence (other than from the state itself) is a goal, but it is frequently not achieved and often not attempted because it's so unrealistic. If Germany really wanted Luxembourg, it would take it, and Luxembourg wouldn't be able to stop it.

jerry1979 8y ago

I think part of the problem comes from the fact that stopping corruption takes effort, and when people have large differences in power relative to each other then basic state functions deteriorate. The United States seems to have power imbalances which lead to corruption. For example, see the Jerry Epstein case in Florida: https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/article220097825.html https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/article220097825.html Other examples might include the water problem in Flint, the deterioration of Detroit, or even the violence problem in South Chicago.

sjg007 8y ago

Rehabs expanded under the ACA due to the insurance coverage mandate. Quality however has always been suspect. Most rehabs are not evidence based and there are a whole bunch of very shady rehabs in Florida and other places.

rdiddly 8y ago

RE Mexican govt. protection: If you're the cartel and the police are giving you trouble in a certain area, you have some options: Bribe whoever needs bribing to make it stop. Brazenly shoot up the police station until they all quit. Murder everybody on the force and their families. Or offer to hire them all at 2-3 times the salary and murder the ones who refuse. This is what people are talking about when they say wealth inequality is a destabilizing influence. RE drug rehab: "Solving" drug addiction would be a sufficient, but unnecessary, way of stopping violence in Latin America. You don't have to tackle that whole big problem; all you have to do is legalize across the board. That makes drug production the province of legitimate businessmen right here in the US, not a vocation that only the poorest/most desperate/most violent/least risk-averse will take on.

arduanika 8y ago

> rehab centers seem to respond to their perverse incentive to treat addicts enough to get them out the door and relapsed back into treatment Interesting. Unrelatedly: how's OkCupid going for everyone?

ouid 8y ago
okcupid never pretended to be good at its job, merely ok.