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> AFAICT, this is for PDF files on your computer and websites converted to PDF. There's no option to add, say, markdown files or locally stored email files. Ke

> AFAICT, this is for PDF files on your computer and websites converted to PDF. There's no option to add, say, markdown files or locally stored email files. Key point of order. We don't actually convert the websites to PDF. We cache the pages offline so you have the original in your archive. This is massively cool and I need to do a better job of making it clear that this isn't just conversion to PDF. > Don't get me wrong, I've tried it out and it's awesome. I'm just not seeing how it's going to take off as a knowledge repository with its limitations. You mean specific limitations to Polar? > I'm also concerned with the ability of this thing to scale. There doesn't appear to be any system for grouping items other than tagging. Maybe tagging works for others, but it's not something I trust (if I have hundreds of items and missed a tag, the item is lost). Some users want to have more of a hierarchical folder view and we might implement that. But I don't get your point about a missing tag. > Definitely don't want this to be a negative comment. It's more "you're 95% of the way to an outstanding product, but I think the last 5% might be an obstacle to adoption." Well one thing is that I think the Hacker News crowd is very very very picky in terms of features and functionality vs the normal user base. The features I've seen from HN just aren't going to be necessary for all users. I'm fine adding them if they fit into the roadmap but some just won't be implemented. One issue is the ability to use other cloud providers which has been brought up a number of times (which is why I wrote this post). That's a massively complex feature and while that would be cool in some sense it would just be far far far too expensive to implement. I think the remaining 5% is doable but we will see.. One valid criticism is that PDF is the only format. We're working on markdown and ePub too...

eslaught 8y ago
> But I don't get your point about a missing tag. At least in my experience, interfaces that use tags (Gmail, Google Docs prior to the Drive upgrade) end up being a massive global heap that make it impossible to find anything. Tags help but only marginally, and only when I'm very selective about applying them. When a tag becomes too big it, it's just the soup problem all over again. In my experience with Gmail/Docs I usually find things via search, or not at all (and unfortunately more often than not the latter). You could argue the same problem occurs in hierarchical folders. But I think one major takeaway I've had is that defaults matter: hierarchical folders normalize a usage where you categorize everything. Therefore, I can find utility bills for an apartment I moved out of some years ago, with about four clicks through my folder tree. As another example, a while back I was asked for my daughter's birth certificate when checking in for a flight. No problem, five clicks and I've got it on my phone. In my experience this is hopeless in a tagging system unless search is very good or the tags are hierarchical and very granular, and at least so far I've never been able to develop the discipline to do this.
- burtonator 8y ago
  I mean a document with no tags is just like sticking something in / Plus, with tags you can have multiple categories. Also, Polar suggest tags for you based on your history. So it gets smarter over time. We will probably add some sort of hierarchy viewer but I'm torn over whether it should be compiled based on the tags or built manually.
  - eslaught 8y ago
    I just went to your website and saw this screenshot: https://getpolarized.io/assets/screenshots/document-repository.png https://getpolarized.io/assets/screenshots/document-reposito... This is exactly what I'm talking about. Tags may be supported but it's not a tag-first interface, per se. When I open finder/explorer/nautilus on my computer, what shows up is the top level of my file hierarchy. This would be like an interface where you showed only top-level tags and then you have to click through one of those to get to any actual documents. You can say this increases friction, but the tradeoff is that it promotes a system of organization that becomes faster overall when I have large numbers of documents. Or again, the issue of uncategorized files: you say it's like saving a document in /, but when I save a file on my local machine it doesn't put it in / first and then as a second step I have to manually put it somewhere else. But that's how most tagging systems work: documents go into the soup of the untagged list by default, I have to manually tag it if that's what I care about. Again, it's normalizing an approach where you dump things in and organize them later except the second step usually doesn't happen. Like I said before, it's not that I don't think tagging could be used with discipline to maintain organization, it's that systems that rely on tagging tend to design their interfaces in a way where tagging is at most an afterthought and often isn't done at all. Whereas on my desktop I literally can't save a file without putting it somewhere in the file hierarchy, and the UI is designed to put that hierarchy front and center.
    - burtonator 8y ago
      Ah! That screenshot is out of date. https://i.imgur.com/hXizVHG.png https://i.imgur.com/hXizVHG.png Tags are now front and center and on by default in the UI. You can easily filter by tag too: https://i.imgur.com/9N5ZMi6.png https://i.imgur.com/9N5ZMi6.png Polar 2.0 will be web based ... there have been thousands of people checking out the website but not many people downloading the app. Had it been web based I don't think that would have been an issue. I think they would have started using it. > it doesn't put it in / first and then as a second step I have to manually put it somewhere else. no.. but it will pick either the users home or their Documents or their Downloads. That's not much better.
bachmeier 8y ago
Maybe a better way to summarize the difficulty I'd have with using Polar heavily is that I put my stuff into projects: something I'm researching, a home improvement project, a new language, etc. It doesn't really seem to fit in with projects, because not everything in a project is going to be PDF files and websites, and I don't see how you can embed Polar in a project either - it's a dump of hundreds of files, and no way to focus on just one project. > But I don't get your point about a missing tag. I find tags to be very complex because I have to remember exactly which tags go with which types of material. If I don't attach a particular tag to a file, that file is as good as lost, because it will never come up again. In contrast, if I organize by projects, I dump all my files into the project and I can come back in two years and have everything I need. Tags just aren't in my experience a substitute for proper organization.
deleted 8y ago
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eslaught 8y ago

> But I don't get your point about a missing tag. At least in my experience, interfaces that use tags (Gmail, Google Docs prior to the Drive upgrade) end up being a massive global heap that make it impossible to find anything. Tags help but only marginally, and only when I'm very selective about applying them. When a tag becomes too big it, it's just the soup problem all over again. In my experience with Gmail/Docs I usually find things via search, or not at all (and unfortunately more often than not the latter). You could argue the same problem occurs in hierarchical folders. But I think one major takeaway I've had is that defaults matter: hierarchical folders normalize a usage where you categorize everything. Therefore, I can find utility bills for an apartment I moved out of some years ago, with about four clicks through my folder tree. As another example, a while back I was asked for my daughter's birth certificate when checking in for a flight. No problem, five clicks and I've got it on my phone. In my experience this is hopeless in a tagging system unless search is very good or the tags are hierarchical and very granular, and at least so far I've never been able to develop the discipline to do this.

burtonator 8y ago
I mean a document with no tags is just like sticking something in / Plus, with tags you can have multiple categories. Also, Polar suggest tags for you based on your history. So it gets smarter over time. We will probably add some sort of hierarchy viewer but I'm torn over whether it should be compiled based on the tags or built manually.
- eslaught 8y ago
  I just went to your website and saw this screenshot: https://getpolarized.io/assets/screenshots/document-repository.png https://getpolarized.io/assets/screenshots/document-reposito... This is exactly what I'm talking about. Tags may be supported but it's not a tag-first interface, per se. When I open finder/explorer/nautilus on my computer, what shows up is the top level of my file hierarchy. This would be like an interface where you showed only top-level tags and then you have to click through one of those to get to any actual documents. You can say this increases friction, but the tradeoff is that it promotes a system of organization that becomes faster overall when I have large numbers of documents. Or again, the issue of uncategorized files: you say it's like saving a document in /, but when I save a file on my local machine it doesn't put it in / first and then as a second step I have to manually put it somewhere else. But that's how most tagging systems work: documents go into the soup of the untagged list by default, I have to manually tag it if that's what I care about. Again, it's normalizing an approach where you dump things in and organize them later except the second step usually doesn't happen. Like I said before, it's not that I don't think tagging could be used with discipline to maintain organization, it's that systems that rely on tagging tend to design their interfaces in a way where tagging is at most an afterthought and often isn't done at all. Whereas on my desktop I literally can't save a file without putting it somewhere in the file hierarchy, and the UI is designed to put that hierarchy front and center.
  - burtonator 8y ago
    Ah! That screenshot is out of date. https://i.imgur.com/hXizVHG.png https://i.imgur.com/hXizVHG.png Tags are now front and center and on by default in the UI. You can easily filter by tag too: https://i.imgur.com/9N5ZMi6.png https://i.imgur.com/9N5ZMi6.png Polar 2.0 will be web based ... there have been thousands of people checking out the website but not many people downloading the app. Had it been web based I don't think that would have been an issue. I think they would have started using it. > it doesn't put it in / first and then as a second step I have to manually put it somewhere else. no.. but it will pick either the users home or their Documents or their Downloads. That's not much better.

bachmeier 8y ago

Maybe a better way to summarize the difficulty I'd have with using Polar heavily is that I put my stuff into projects: something I'm researching, a home improvement project, a new language, etc. It doesn't really seem to fit in with projects, because not everything in a project is going to be PDF files and websites, and I don't see how you can embed Polar in a project either - it's a dump of hundreds of files, and no way to focus on just one project. > But I don't get your point about a missing tag. I find tags to be very complex because I have to remember exactly which tags go with which types of material. If I don't attach a particular tag to a file, that file is as good as lost, because it will never come up again. In contrast, if I organize by projects, I dump all my files into the project and I can come back in two years and have everything I need. Tags just aren't in my experience a substitute for proper organization.

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]