5 ms·
This reminds me of a horrible tax I came to know of recently - something called the EU VAT MOSS on digital goods. Apparently, it is supposed to target giants li
by throwaway_9168 8y ago
This reminds me of a horrible tax I came to know of recently - something called the EU VAT MOSS on digital goods. Apparently, it is supposed to target giants like Amazon who route money via multiple countries to evade taxes. Not surprisingly, this ends up affecting the smallest players most drastically. Worst, the glib language used to describe who should pay the tax is utterly confusing. As always, this means the actual target company of this tax chalks it down as yet another thing they need to remember (amongst a million other things), while the tiniest players who are starting out and who don't reside in the EU will have to worry and stress endlessly about the stupidity of dealing with something like this.
Here is what I have learnt about Eurocrats: a) they don't understand economics b) they definitely don't understand unintended consequences c) I am willing to bet not one of them has ever bootstrapped a successful venture and finally d) there is a good reason why no country in Europe is able to create its own Silicon Valley - they are just too busy creating more busywork for themselves.
And to the well-intentioned person who comes along and says "Well, if you are clearly not the target of this, then why do you even worry?" I have a question - if it turns out that you are wrong, are you going to pay the taxes on my behalf? Actually, this is literally what I asked a friend of mine from Europe who expressed that sentiment. Not surprisingly, he wasn't really willing to put his money where his mouth was.
I am frankly astonished by all the people from EU who come in and comment things like "Oh, you don't really know how European laws actually work. If you did, then you wouldn't be worried". Do you not have nothing better to do in life than trying to understand the nuances between the "letter of the law" and the "spirit of the law" in every country around the world?
Oh, and by the way - HN will be very interested to know this: right now, there is a company called Paddle which is a Stripe competitor - and this one law (EU VAT MOSS) seems to have single handedly revived this company. It was (and apparently still is) a painful software to use, and Stripe is faaar superior in terms of API and integrations [1], but Paddle has now become the defacto choice [2] for everyone who actually cares about the EU VAT MOSS because Paddle handles all the annoying crap on your behalf. My guess is, Stripe - which is too Silicon Valley focused - is going to be blindsided by EU VAT MOSS, hand over a lot of their next generation of customers to Paddle, and won't even know what hit them in a few years if they don't pay careful attention to what is going on here.
[1] https://www.indiehackers.com/forum/anyone-using-paddle-for-subscriptions-experiences-7d0c5fe4f6 https://www.indiehackers.com/forum/anyone-using-paddle-for-s...
[2] https://www.indiehackers.com/forum/how-do-you-handle-vat-moss-8be8ebdf98 https://www.indiehackers.com/forum/how-do-you-handle-vat-mos...
- Nimitz14 8y agoIt took me 5min of googling to find out VAT MOSS > MOSS means you don't need to register with tax authorities in every EU country you sell to, instead, you can register for VAT, file VAT returns and make payments in one single place. Sounds pretty great to me.
- throwaway_9168 8y ago>> Sounds pretty great to me. I see. Do you mind spending another 5 and tell the answer to this question: suppose someone sells online courses. And they don't themselves reside in the EU, but the have customers who do. Should they register for VAT?
- Nimitz14 8y agoWhat do you mean "should they register for VAT"? You should be registering for VAT in your home country anyways. Or are you talking about additionally registering for VAT MOSS? The answer is no you don't have to, it's just convenient because it's less admin (as otherwise you should be registering for VAT in each EU country that you have customers). I knew all that from the previous 5 minutes I spent on it.
- T2_t2 8y agoAll this stuff is super confusing. https://www.austrade.gov.au/contact/faqs/i-want-to-export-my-product-to-the-eu-including-uk https://www.austrade.gov.au/contact/faqs/i-want-to-export-my... says you need to register if: > your VAT taxable turnover is more than £85,000 (the 'threshold') in a 12 month period > you expect to go over the threshold in a single 30 day period WTF? How the hell would anyone know that? What if you never sell to the UK, but someone goes on a run because some product randomly becomes popular. It is such an unnecessary minefield.
- alwayseasy 8y agoThe bullet point right below the 2 you quoted literally answers you question. "If neither you nor your business is based in the UK. You must register as soon as you supply any goods and services to the UK (Same with EU)". Alternatively, don't do business in a country you consider to complex to deal with.