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Huawei was created as a front organization for China's intelligence service. This has been known for years; long before the Iran deal. We know it and they deny

Huawei was created as a front organization for China's intelligence service. This has been known for years; long before the Iran deal. We know it and they deny it. That's how the game has always been played with respect to Huawei. Other Chinese companies like Lenovo have exhibited tendencies to spy, but AFAIK only Huawei originated as essentially an arm of the Chinese CIA. That's what makes Huawei different.

DDebbieDDowner 8y ago
> Huawei was created as a front organization for China's intelligence service. This has been known for years; long before the Iran deal. We know it and they deny it. Same as Google then, yet we don't see the same outrage from the western media as we see with the case of Huawei. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12841993 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12841993
apexalpha 8y ago
God I would love any form of backup or source on that statement.
lphnull 8y ago
I'm out of the loop and Google is of no help and may even be censored on my device. What's going on?
- thg 8y ago
  It's FUD based on the factless propaganda the US government is spouting out. Nothing more.
  - seppin 8y ago
    The founder was Chinese military, the early funding came from government sources, and several official gov white papers state Huawei as a national security priority. I don't know what you accomplish by denying something so basic and provable.
    - thg 8y ago
      > The founder was Chinese military As was pretty much every other male adult of his generation. I don't see what this supposedly proves. > the early funding came from government sources Something which isn't all too uncommon, both in China and across the world. Silicon Valley itself was built on DoD money. Again, this is grasping straws. > and several official gov white papers state Huawei as a national security priority. That can be interpreted in a lot of different ways. For one, Trump made the exact same statement about the US coal and steel industry. Is the rest of the world supposed to ban US coal and steel now because of that? Again, this doesn't prove anything at all. It's just interpretative fear-mongering. I'll tell you what we have: Numerous backdoors in Cisco equipment and official government documents that the NSA used Cisco for spying operations. This is a fact. On Huawei's side, all we have are comments from the US government. The very organization with a decades long track record of global mass surveillance, among other things. There is no proof of backdoors, despite GCHQ having inspected their hard- and software for the past 8 years. In fact, there isn't any evidence at all that the Chinese government has used Huawei for their spying operations in any capacity. They most certainly could force them to, but the exact same thing can be said about the US government, who also has a track record of having done exactly that already. Show me actual proof and I'll revise my opinion, but until then I'll call this out for what it is: Just another US-gov-led witch hunt.
      - seppin 8y ago
        > Silicon Valley itself was built on DoD money. Yes and the result wasn't Intel and Cisco de facto owned by DoD/IC. Your need for two different things to be the same is confusing, but no doubt central to your worldview. > Numerous backdoors in Cisco equipment and official government documents that the NSA used Cisco for spying operations Did the US gov order them be put there? Did they even have to make the order, as all major tech networking companies are arms of state intel anyways? No? Well then what are you talking about?
        thg 8y ago
        > Your need for two different things to be the same is confusing, but no doubt central to your worldview. First taking it out of context and then resorting to name-calling. > Did the US gov order them be put there? The first precedent that comes to mind: https://www.disclose.tv/linux-creator-linus-torvalds-reveals-nsa-demanded-backdoor-309474 https://www.disclose.tv/linux-creator-linus-torvalds-reveals... and there's a whole lot more where that came from. It appears your knowledge on the matter doesn't transcend beyond repeating US propaganda. Ignorance of facts, making up strawman arguments, repeating words of a notoriously lying organization without any thinking about it whatsoever. There is no discussion to be had here.
castis 8y ago
> We know it ^citation needed
kerng 8y ago
Powerful statement. Do you have a reference for that from a credible source?
djohnston 8y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ren_Zhengfei https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ren_Zhengfei is the founder, and he was an IT engineer in the military, but i think during his generation it would be surprising to find somebody who didn't serve the state in some capacity. do you have any other sources?
fspeech 8y ago
Read "How Huawei tried to sell itself to Motorola for $7.5bn" which was published by FT four days ago. The deal was advised by JP Morgan and Morgan Stanley. It fell through at the final stage due to leadership change at Motorola. I don't see how your unsubstantiated statement could possibly be reconciled with FT reporting. You should retract your statement unless you have better evidence than FT.
- seppin 8y ago
  Yeah and Google was almost sold for 1m to yahoo. No one knows what anything is worth or how much it will grow, no one.
- natch 8y ago
  It's easily reconciled, to the point that the conclusion is hard to avoid, even: Huawei could have been trying to embed its personnel with their nationalist agenda into Motorola. This would have furthered that agenda tremendously.
dreamcompiler 8y ago
Since everybody's asking for sources, here are a few. HPSCI (Rogers/Ruppersberger) report (2012): https://republicans-intelligence.house.gov/sites/intelligence.house.gov/files/documents/huawei-zte%20investigative%20report%20(final).pdf https://republicans-intelligence.house.gov/sites/intelligenc... Story about Rogers report (2012): https://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/09/us/us-panel-calls-huawei-and-zte-national-security-threat.html https://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/09/us/us-panel-calls-huawei-... Australia Bars Huawei From Broadband Project (2012): https://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/27/technology/australia-bars-huawei-from-broadband-project.html https://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/27/technology/australia-bars... CBS News interview with Rogers (2012): https://www.cbsnews.com/news/huawei-probed-for-security-espionage-risk/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/huawei-probed-for-security-espi... Analysis: Who really owns Huawei? (2010): https://www.itnews.com.au/news/analysis-who-really-owns-huawei-175946 https://www.itnews.com.au/news/analysis-who-really-owns-huaw... Foreign involvement in the Critical National Infrastructure (UK 2013): https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/205680/ISC-Report-Foreign-Investment-in-the-Critical-National-Infrastructure.pdf https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachm... The History Of Tech Giant Huawei And The Chinese Government (2018): https://www.npr.org/2018/12/07/674467994/huawei-and-the-chinese-government https://www.npr.org/2018/12/07/674467994/huawei-and-the-chin...

DDebbieDDowner 8y ago

> Huawei was created as a front organization for China's intelligence service. This has been known for years; long before the Iran deal. We know it and they deny it. Same as Google then, yet we don't see the same outrage from the western media as we see with the case of Huawei. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12841993 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12841993

apexalpha 8y ago

God I would love any form of backup or source on that statement.

lphnull 8y ago

I'm out of the loop and Google is of no help and may even be censored on my device. What's going on?

thg 8y ago
It's FUD based on the factless propaganda the US government is spouting out. Nothing more.
- seppin 8y ago
  The founder was Chinese military, the early funding came from government sources, and several official gov white papers state Huawei as a national security priority. I don't know what you accomplish by denying something so basic and provable.
  - thg 8y ago
    > The founder was Chinese military As was pretty much every other male adult of his generation. I don't see what this supposedly proves. > the early funding came from government sources Something which isn't all too uncommon, both in China and across the world. Silicon Valley itself was built on DoD money. Again, this is grasping straws. > and several official gov white papers state Huawei as a national security priority. That can be interpreted in a lot of different ways. For one, Trump made the exact same statement about the US coal and steel industry. Is the rest of the world supposed to ban US coal and steel now because of that? Again, this doesn't prove anything at all. It's just interpretative fear-mongering. I'll tell you what we have: Numerous backdoors in Cisco equipment and official government documents that the NSA used Cisco for spying operations. This is a fact. On Huawei's side, all we have are comments from the US government. The very organization with a decades long track record of global mass surveillance, among other things. There is no proof of backdoors, despite GCHQ having inspected their hard- and software for the past 8 years. In fact, there isn't any evidence at all that the Chinese government has used Huawei for their spying operations in any capacity. They most certainly could force them to, but the exact same thing can be said about the US government, who also has a track record of having done exactly that already. Show me actual proof and I'll revise my opinion, but until then I'll call this out for what it is: Just another US-gov-led witch hunt.
    - seppin 8y ago
      > Silicon Valley itself was built on DoD money. Yes and the result wasn't Intel and Cisco de facto owned by DoD/IC. Your need for two different things to be the same is confusing, but no doubt central to your worldview. > Numerous backdoors in Cisco equipment and official government documents that the NSA used Cisco for spying operations Did the US gov order them be put there? Did they even have to make the order, as all major tech networking companies are arms of state intel anyways? No? Well then what are you talking about?
      - thg 8y ago
        > Your need for two different things to be the same is confusing, but no doubt central to your worldview. First taking it out of context and then resorting to name-calling. > Did the US gov order them be put there? The first precedent that comes to mind: https://www.disclose.tv/linux-creator-linus-torvalds-reveals-nsa-demanded-backdoor-309474 https://www.disclose.tv/linux-creator-linus-torvalds-reveals... and there's a whole lot more where that came from. It appears your knowledge on the matter doesn't transcend beyond repeating US propaganda. Ignorance of facts, making up strawman arguments, repeating words of a notoriously lying organization without any thinking about it whatsoever. There is no discussion to be had here.

castis 8y ago

> We know it ^citation needed

kerng 8y ago

Powerful statement. Do you have a reference for that from a credible source?

djohnston 8y ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ren_Zhengfei https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ren_Zhengfei is the founder, and he was an IT engineer in the military, but i think during his generation it would be surprising to find somebody who didn't serve the state in some capacity. do you have any other sources?

fspeech 8y ago

Read "How Huawei tried to sell itself to Motorola for $7.5bn" which was published by FT four days ago. The deal was advised by JP Morgan and Morgan Stanley. It fell through at the final stage due to leadership change at Motorola. I don't see how your unsubstantiated statement could possibly be reconciled with FT reporting. You should retract your statement unless you have better evidence than FT.

seppin 8y ago
Yeah and Google was almost sold for 1m to yahoo. No one knows what anything is worth or how much it will grow, no one.
natch 8y ago
It's easily reconciled, to the point that the conclusion is hard to avoid, even: Huawei could have been trying to embed its personnel with their nationalist agenda into Motorola. This would have furthered that agenda tremendously.

dreamcompiler 8y ago

Since everybody's asking for sources, here are a few. HPSCI (Rogers/Ruppersberger) report (2012): https://republicans-intelligence.house.gov/sites/intelligence.house.gov/files/documents/huawei-zte%20investigative%20report%20(final).pdf https://republicans-intelligence.house.gov/sites/intelligenc... Story about Rogers report (2012): https://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/09/us/us-panel-calls-huawei-and-zte-national-security-threat.html https://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/09/us/us-panel-calls-huawei-... Australia Bars Huawei From Broadband Project (2012): https://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/27/technology/australia-bars-huawei-from-broadband-project.html https://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/27/technology/australia-bars... CBS News interview with Rogers (2012): https://www.cbsnews.com/news/huawei-probed-for-security-espionage-risk/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/huawei-probed-for-security-espi... Analysis: Who really owns Huawei? (2010): https://www.itnews.com.au/news/analysis-who-really-owns-huawei-175946 https://www.itnews.com.au/news/analysis-who-really-owns-huaw... Foreign involvement in the Critical National Infrastructure (UK 2013): https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/205680/ISC-Report-Foreign-Investment-in-the-Critical-National-Infrastructure.pdf https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachm... The History Of Tech Giant Huawei And The Chinese Government (2018): https://www.npr.org/2018/12/07/674467994/huawei-and-the-chinese-government https://www.npr.org/2018/12/07/674467994/huawei-and-the-chin...