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On one hand, it’s a very high price. On the other hand, no one is entitled to a one bedroom unit in the heart of one of the human epicenters in the world. Many
by askafriend 8y ago
On one hand, it’s a very high price. On the other hand, no one is entitled to a one bedroom unit in the heart of one of the human epicenters in the world. Many people here have roommates or alternate living arrangements.
There are several reasons why the prices have gotten so high (lack of supply, politics, etc).
But don’t expect to move your Texas ranch or Midwestern single-family-house lifestyle to SF with no compromises.
But in return for your compromises, you will get quite a bit in return.
Is it worth it? That’s a very personal decision. For many, it’s not. For many, it is.
- webo 8y ago>no one is entitled to a one bedroom I’m curious how do you mean this? There are a plenty of reasons as to why I wouldn’t want to have a roommate and a 2bd is not affordable.
- thatoneuser 8y agoBasically if you can't afford it then you're not a victim...
- abakker 8y agoEntitled is not the same as just getting what you want. If you can afford it, great. If you can’t afford it, nothing else entitles you to have it.
- learc83 8y agoThere's nothing inherent in that. Any more than it's inherent that in a system that awards apartments based on time on a waiting list, that time on a waiting list entitles you to an apartment in that system. The argument is whether we should somehow alter what entitles you to an apartment in our system.
- Laremere 8y agoYou cut off the important bit "in the heart of one of the human epicenters in the world." It's about location, not living space.
- learc83 8y agoIt's not about whether any specific person deserves to live in a specific place. There is a cost to society in effectively pricing out half of the population from an entire city. Is the benefit of mitigating that worth the cost? For what it's worth, I think that it probably is.
- askafriend 8y ago> It's not about whether any specific person deserves to live in a specific place. I never said anything about if someone deserves to live somewhere. A 1-bedroom apartment is a very specific type of unit and that's part of what I wanted to point out. You can also rent studios, converted rooms, or get roommates in a bigger place with more rooms. There's a lot of other options I'm leaving out too, but I reject the premise that everyone in SF absolutely requires a 1-bedroom apt as an essential. It's nice to have certainly, and having roommates isn't for everyone...but there are tradeoffs to every place you live. You can absolutely make SF work if that was your desire and you knew the tradeoffs.
- learc83 8y agoThe price for a studio isn't going to be far behind a 1 bedroom, and rooms in houses aren't really an option for for people who aren't single in most cases. Even if you wanted to cram multiple people into one 12x12 room, most cheap rooms for rent are explicit about 1 person only. Look at median household income, San Francisco is effectively off limits to most people.
- askafriend 8y agoPoint taken. We definitely have a problem but I really don’t see any solution anytime soon. Even if we committed to building a ton of new supply tomorrow, it’d still take years to get approved and actually physically built. I’ll push back a little on your point back alternatives not being too far behind the price of a 1 bedroom though. I know several people with units <$1800. Some converted rooms go for <$1500.
- 8y ago
- cft 8y agoExcept for rent controlled tenants that is
- wycs 8y agoPeople are entitled to build whatever they want on their property. As Silicon Valley is ruled by rent seekers who make building illegal, people have every right to complain.
- newnewpdro 8y ago> People are entitled to build whatever they want on their property Not in a world where zoning and nuisance laws exist, with good reasons.
- jogjayr 8y agoNo one's proposing to build a sewage treatment plant on this land. It's just more housing, in a city where people go without a roof over their head because it's too expensive. There's no "nuisance" here, only landowners trying to assert rights over their neighbors' property.
- Cyclone_ 8y ago"Rent seekers who make building illegal"? I don't think it's the people seeking rent who would make building illegal.
- isoskeles 8y ago"Rent seeking" is a specific term in economics referring to people who seek to extract wealth from the economy without adding to it in any way, e.g. "make building illegal" in order to force up the value of their own property. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rent_seeking https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rent_seeking
- Cyclone_ 8y agoThanks for sharing, did not know of that term, but I must say it's a rather confusing choice of words!
- 8y ago
- wbl 8y agoThis is more expensive than Manhattan, Tokyo, every European capital, etc. It's more expensive because unlike most other cities San Francisco has very few residential apartment buildings. Make SF into Manhattan and watch prices fall.
- omegaworks 8y ago>Make SF into Manhattan and watch prices fall. I don't see how that follows. Manhattan is Manhattan, and yet prices still rise, families and communities are still displaced, and there are still people that are un or under-housed. In America, housing is an asset that appreciates in value for the purpose of resale. For the middle class, housing has been the primary means of accruing wealth and for many is the entirety of their retirement savings. A society that guaranteed housing to every citizen would be fundamentally, structurally different than the one we live in today. It's not a simple urban planning problem.
- Zenbit_UX 8y agoYou don't understand how Manhattan optimized for density before prices rose this high? The parent is saying if SF had the housing density of Manhattan it would take decades of more growth before prices reach NYC levels.
- 52-6F-62 8y agoGotta ask, because this issue comes up in many major cities: And what if the service workers who make substantially less than the higher earners who so rely on them? Does the cost go down that much for a 4 bedroom split between four people on minimum wage? In a lot of places it doesn’t.
- ndnxhs 8y agoThe service workers move somewhere else where they can afford to live. The ones that remain can demand a higher price for their work
- afarrell 8y ago...When they are actually working. But if you are fired from the job, you still need to pay rent for the time it takes to find a new job. Having high rent reduces your personal “runway”. This makes bootstrapped startups hard and it makes like as a lower-income worker very risky/stressful
- ndnxhs 8y agoIf you don't like the risk/stress there are plenty of other places to live. If you choose to live in SF when you can't afford it then that just not a wise decision. Eventually the prices will even out and you will just have to pay $30 for a sandwich.
- 52-6F-62 8y agoIs that happening? Are service workers in SF paid a living wage? Or are people like fast food workers being paid minimum wage and commuting 2 hours?
- ndnxhs 8y agoThat is their choice. The market will only correct if people make rational choices.
- rayiner 8y ago> On one hand, it’s a very high price. On the other hand, no one is entitled to a one bedroom in the heart of one of the human epicenters in the world. Many people here have roommates or alternate living arrangements. New York is the “human epicenter” in the US. San Francisco is in the same tier as Houston or DC: https://www.lboro.ac.uk/gawc/world2018t.html https://www.lboro.ac.uk/gawc/world2018t.html. Paying New York/London prices to live in a city that is not New York or London is just sad.
- jdavis703 8y ago> Paying New York/London prices to live in a city that is not New York or London is just sad. I’m coming to this point. If I’m going to pay a New York level rent I might was well enjoy a 24/7 subway, a plethora of good restaurants and a beach that’s actually warm in the summer.
- seppin 8y agoAnd actual culture.
- oleganza 8y agoTo the downvoters: I moved to SF/BA 3 years ago after living 8 years in Paris (France) and before that 20 years in St. Petersburg (Russia). There is noticeably more culture and diversity in both Paris and SPb than in SF/BA.
- joshuamorton 8y agoWhat is "culture" in this context? (I mean this sincerely)
- ascar 8y agoNot parent, but I would define it as "Monuments" to visit (e.g. Eiffel tower), history of the area, culture entertainment like museums or theaters (i.e. not just movies, but opera, plays, musicals or concerts) and maybe regional activities (e.g. surfing in CA, but Octoberfest in Munich). I haven't been to SF yet, but based on that Sankt Petersburg, Paris or NY seem more significant than SF.
- closeparen 8y agoRoommates and alternative living situations are necessary because our housing policy is to preserve the Texan/Midwestern single-family-house lifestyles of existing homeowners. And not just to preserve them, but to keep sightlines clear of evidence that someone else might be living a different lifestyle nearby. People are not entitled to 1BRs, but they are even less entitled to streets curated for 1-2 story detached houses at trivial distances from that human epicenter.
- 420codebro 8y agoType harder, we still don't care.
- slavapestov 8y ago> Many people here have roommates or alternate living arrangements. Is “alternate living arrangements” a euphemism for homelessness?
- eeeeeeeeeeeee 8y agoThis only applies if you’re a single person. How is someone supposed to start a family and afford to live anywhere near that area? I think we are reaching a really depressing future if only the wealthy can afford to have a family. Bay Area is the most extreme example but we see it everywhere with no government mandated leave policies and childcare costs are insane. Again, only the wealthy get these services because they work at companies that use them for recruiting purposes and to retain talent.