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> multiple intelligence agencies investigating them and stating that their hardware shouldn't be used, practically being an arm of the Chinese military intellig

> multiple intelligence agencies investigating them and stating that their hardware shouldn't be used, practically being an arm of the Chinese military intelligence Has anyone come forward with /any/ hard evidence that implicates huawei spying on their customers? This is my biggest gripe in this whole mess. The fact that no evidence has surfaced yet, despite how easily obtainable it would be for govs, indicates to me that that these accusations are motivated by geopolitics and have little to do with whether huawei customers are being spied upon or not. As for disingenuity, I think that hurtling accusations at people without any sort of supporting evidence is what's disgustingly disingenuous.

creato 8y ago
It seems silly to debate the existence of the possibility that Huawei can spy on their customers or whether it has happened before. They ship binary blob software updates to the hardware routinely, as does any other vendor of this kind of equipment. The only reasonable question is whether you believe Huawei will exploit this opportunity if asked or "asked" by the Chinese government.
- jake_the_third 8y ago
  Perhaps, but then following the same line of logic would make all hardware vendors equally suspect. All hardware vendors will eventually comply if "asked" by their government (including US, remember prism?). The only difference is the formalities followed. I plan to continue using huawei as long as their pricing remains competitive or real hard evidence of foulplay is made public. Expecting people to single out a single vendor just because the a government with a history of lying said so is just silly.
hnmonkey 8y ago
Yes, people and organizations have come forward and said they have evidence. It's a simple google search away. You, similar to the OP, seem to be ignoring all of the many warnings from many organizations. If you think that intelligence agencies are going to show you, a random person, or the public the evidence directly I think you're not really aware of how they work. Why would they burn assets and methods to prove this when everyone agrees on it? I would probably agree with you that attaining evidence of this spying would be somewhat easier for governments than for others. However, the rest of your assertion that these accusations are only due to geopolitics is pretty out there given it's almost universal at this point that people think Huawei are not on the up and up. Hurtling accusations without any sort of supporting evidence is literally what you've just done. There's a ton of evidence out there to not use them. Here are some pieces of evidence for you that literally were on page 1 and 2 of a search: CIA, NSA, FBI just last year saying the US shouldn't use them: https://www.forbes.com/sites/marcochiappetta/2018/11/25/u-s-advises-allies-to-shun-huawei-telecom-equipment-citing-potential-cyberthreats/#667642fb8aa8 https://www.forbes.com/sites/marcochiappetta/2018/11/25/u-s-... At least the US and Australian Intelligence services have hard evidence of them spying for the Chinese government: https://www.axios.com/report-australian-intelligence-know-huawei-1541285886-42f1eb64-98de-422f-9686-4174e41ef37e.html https://www.axios.com/report-australian-intelligence-know-hu... https://www.reuters.com/article/us-huawei-security/former-cia-boss-says-aware-of-evidence-huawei-spying-for-china-idUSBRE96I06I20130719 https://www.reuters.com/article/us-huawei-security/former-ci...
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- jake_the_third 8y ago
  Provide evidence that huawei is spying or keep your mouth shut. It's that simple.
  - hnmonkey 8y ago
    Yep, I'll just grab that from the CIA, NSA, FBI, and Australian Intelligence services for you. Should I assume you want it by today? This might be the most absurd and rude statement all in one that I've seen on HN before. You're surprisingly aggressive and defensive on behalf of a Chinese multinational in your comments and don't actually seem to be interested in hearing the truth. Interesting.
    - jake_the_third 8y ago
      I'm not being aggressive on behalf of a chinese company, I'm being aggressive against unsupported accusations spouted by morons because it happens to fit with their preferred political narrative. If calling innocence-until-proven-guilty and demanding proof is considered absurd, then I'd gladly be such.
Theodores 8y ago
You are wasting your time trying to use reason with people who have made up their minds already. I am disgusted at the xenophobia and indoctrination going on in West regarding China. There is a lack of respect for Chinese people and this idea that if you repeat whatever CNN et al. tells you enough times then it must be true. The thing about parasites is that they have to convince the host that they are not the problem. The military industrial complex in the USA has Hollywood and the news to do this for them. Some doublethink happens and despite all the hard evidence of wrong doing by the 'intelligence agencies' in the West the Chinese tech firms rather than those in the West known to be complicit with snitching are portrayed as the bad guys. I don't know why China bothers to make so many nice things for us. Or to bail out our financial system when we consume so much. Despite this vulgar atmosphere of sino-phobia it is important to challenge the pervasive groupthink by wasting time on made up minds by presenting more reasoned arguments. With Hauwei it would destroy their business if it were discovered that they had snitch-code in their products. No snitch-code reporting back to some ogre in the dreaded communist party of China has ever been found but the haters gotta hate even if it makes no sense to do so. None of these China haters would tell their own lousy capitalist rent-seeker governments to go to hell no matter how much domestic spying there is or how many more NATO wars against fabricated enemies happen. These sino-phobes are mice, not men.
- dang 8y ago
  I appreciate the intention in your comment to promote greater tolerance, but posting in the flamewar style is exactly the wrong way to do it, and violates the site guidelines. If you'd please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and follow them, we'd appreciate it. Edit: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19261926 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19261926 was another example of how people aren't allowed to post here, and looking back further I notice https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18159584 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18159584. Would you please not post like this again?

creato 8y ago

It seems silly to debate the existence of the possibility that Huawei can spy on their customers or whether it has happened before. They ship binary blob software updates to the hardware routinely, as does any other vendor of this kind of equipment. The only reasonable question is whether you believe Huawei will exploit this opportunity if asked or "asked" by the Chinese government.

jake_the_third 8y ago
Perhaps, but then following the same line of logic would make all hardware vendors equally suspect. All hardware vendors will eventually comply if "asked" by their government (including US, remember prism?). The only difference is the formalities followed. I plan to continue using huawei as long as their pricing remains competitive or real hard evidence of foulplay is made public. Expecting people to single out a single vendor just because the a government with a history of lying said so is just silly.

hnmonkey 8y ago

Yes, people and organizations have come forward and said they have evidence. It's a simple google search away. You, similar to the OP, seem to be ignoring all of the many warnings from many organizations. If you think that intelligence agencies are going to show you, a random person, or the public the evidence directly I think you're not really aware of how they work. Why would they burn assets and methods to prove this when everyone agrees on it? I would probably agree with you that attaining evidence of this spying would be somewhat easier for governments than for others. However, the rest of your assertion that these accusations are only due to geopolitics is pretty out there given it's almost universal at this point that people think Huawei are not on the up and up. Hurtling accusations without any sort of supporting evidence is literally what you've just done. There's a ton of evidence out there to not use them. Here are some pieces of evidence for you that literally were on page 1 and 2 of a search: CIA, NSA, FBI just last year saying the US shouldn't use them: https://www.forbes.com/sites/marcochiappetta/2018/11/25/u-s-advises-allies-to-shun-huawei-telecom-equipment-citing-potential-cyberthreats/#667642fb8aa8 https://www.forbes.com/sites/marcochiappetta/2018/11/25/u-s-... At least the US and Australian Intelligence services have hard evidence of them spying for the Chinese government: https://www.axios.com/report-australian-intelligence-know-huawei-1541285886-42f1eb64-98de-422f-9686-4174e41ef37e.html https://www.axios.com/report-australian-intelligence-know-hu... https://www.reuters.com/article/us-huawei-security/former-cia-boss-says-aware-of-evidence-huawei-spying-for-china-idUSBRE96I06I20130719 https://www.reuters.com/article/us-huawei-security/former-ci...

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
jake_the_third 8y ago
Provide evidence that huawei is spying or keep your mouth shut. It's that simple.
- hnmonkey 8y ago
  Yep, I'll just grab that from the CIA, NSA, FBI, and Australian Intelligence services for you. Should I assume you want it by today? This might be the most absurd and rude statement all in one that I've seen on HN before. You're surprisingly aggressive and defensive on behalf of a Chinese multinational in your comments and don't actually seem to be interested in hearing the truth. Interesting.
  - jake_the_third 8y ago
    I'm not being aggressive on behalf of a chinese company, I'm being aggressive against unsupported accusations spouted by morons because it happens to fit with their preferred political narrative. If calling innocence-until-proven-guilty and demanding proof is considered absurd, then I'd gladly be such.

Theodores 8y ago

You are wasting your time trying to use reason with people who have made up their minds already. I am disgusted at the xenophobia and indoctrination going on in West regarding China. There is a lack of respect for Chinese people and this idea that if you repeat whatever CNN et al. tells you enough times then it must be true. The thing about parasites is that they have to convince the host that they are not the problem. The military industrial complex in the USA has Hollywood and the news to do this for them. Some doublethink happens and despite all the hard evidence of wrong doing by the 'intelligence agencies' in the West the Chinese tech firms rather than those in the West known to be complicit with snitching are portrayed as the bad guys. I don't know why China bothers to make so many nice things for us. Or to bail out our financial system when we consume so much. Despite this vulgar atmosphere of sino-phobia it is important to challenge the pervasive groupthink by wasting time on made up minds by presenting more reasoned arguments. With Hauwei it would destroy their business if it were discovered that they had snitch-code in their products. No snitch-code reporting back to some ogre in the dreaded communist party of China has ever been found but the haters gotta hate even if it makes no sense to do so. None of these China haters would tell their own lousy capitalist rent-seeker governments to go to hell no matter how much domestic spying there is or how many more NATO wars against fabricated enemies happen. These sino-phobes are mice, not men.

dang 8y ago
I appreciate the intention in your comment to promote greater tolerance, but posting in the flamewar style is exactly the wrong way to do it, and violates the site guidelines. If you'd please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and follow them, we'd appreciate it. Edit: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19261926 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19261926 was another example of how people aren't allowed to post here, and looking back further I notice https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18159584 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18159584. Would you please not post like this again?