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I'm surprised how few free/open market advocates have come rushing to Huawei's defense. It seems everyone's caught the protectionism bug these days. Fact of th

I'm surprised how few free/open market advocates have come rushing to Huawei's defense. It seems everyone's caught the protectionism bug these days. Fact of the matter is they're being singled out not because of the their Iran dealings (Numerous US corporations have done this in the past and paid only modest fines), but at the behest of corporate lobbying efforts on the part of Huawei's competitors whose high margin business models are under assault.

bassman9000 8y ago
Because the Chinese is not a free market, at least far less, by huge margins, than the US or any other Western nation one. Huawei has been free to operate, and even bid in large contracts. Name one Western company allowed the same degree of freedom in China. If Huawei wants to get equal treatment, its CEO should ask the Chinese government to truly open their economy, and allow outside companies to truly compete.
- vectorrain 8y ago
  But this time, it's US that impose restrictions on Huawei. That is your so called free market?
  - product50 8y ago
    Yeah - US is a free market and should everyone in. But China should exclude whoever they like. And it is all totally fair right? Why not, because US is a free market and how dare they didn't let Huawei in?
  - bassman9000 8y ago
    We all either play by the same rules, or none do. Though luck for Huawei. Check the WTO records on China.
hnmonkey 8y ago
You're stating that they're being singled out for just doing business and that businesses are just afraid of losing money. You seem to be ignoring the trade secret theft, IP theft, multiple intelligence agencies investigating them and stating that their hardware shouldn't be used, practically being an arm of the Chinese military intelligence, and probably more I'm forgetting. Seems like a very disingenuous argument to be making...
- jake_the_third 8y ago
  > multiple intelligence agencies investigating them and stating that their hardware shouldn't be used, practically being an arm of the Chinese military intelligence Has anyone come forward with /any/ hard evidence that implicates huawei spying on their customers? This is my biggest gripe in this whole mess. The fact that no evidence has surfaced yet, despite how easily obtainable it would be for govs, indicates to me that that these accusations are motivated by geopolitics and have little to do with whether huawei customers are being spied upon or not. As for disingenuity, I think that hurtling accusations at people without any sort of supporting evidence is what's disgustingly disingenuous.
  - creato 8y ago
    It seems silly to debate the existence of the possibility that Huawei can spy on their customers or whether it has happened before. They ship binary blob software updates to the hardware routinely, as does any other vendor of this kind of equipment. The only reasonable question is whether you believe Huawei will exploit this opportunity if asked or "asked" by the Chinese government.
    - jake_the_third 8y ago
      Perhaps, but then following the same line of logic would make all hardware vendors equally suspect. All hardware vendors will eventually comply if "asked" by their government (including US, remember prism?). The only difference is the formalities followed. I plan to continue using huawei as long as their pricing remains competitive or real hard evidence of foulplay is made public. Expecting people to single out a single vendor just because the a government with a history of lying said so is just silly.
rodneyzeng 8y ago
Huawei is singled out? No, Huawei is repsected as public benefit or national benefit in China. Listen to the new "public benefit" song "Huawei's beauty": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c0tvr5ETVdE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c0tvr5ETVdE. Huawei is never singled out - it is protected by Chinese government, supported by Chinese government and run by Chinese government. It is not open to the market.

bassman9000 8y ago

Because the Chinese is not a free market, at least far less, by huge margins, than the US or any other Western nation one. Huawei has been free to operate, and even bid in large contracts. Name one Western company allowed the same degree of freedom in China. If Huawei wants to get equal treatment, its CEO should ask the Chinese government to truly open their economy, and allow outside companies to truly compete.

vectorrain 8y ago
But this time, it's US that impose restrictions on Huawei. That is your so called free market?
- product50 8y ago
  Yeah - US is a free market and should everyone in. But China should exclude whoever they like. And it is all totally fair right? Why not, because US is a free market and how dare they didn't let Huawei in?
- bassman9000 8y ago
  We all either play by the same rules, or none do. Though luck for Huawei. Check the WTO records on China.

hnmonkey 8y ago

You're stating that they're being singled out for just doing business and that businesses are just afraid of losing money. You seem to be ignoring the trade secret theft, IP theft, multiple intelligence agencies investigating them and stating that their hardware shouldn't be used, practically being an arm of the Chinese military intelligence, and probably more I'm forgetting. Seems like a very disingenuous argument to be making...

jake_the_third 8y ago
> multiple intelligence agencies investigating them and stating that their hardware shouldn't be used, practically being an arm of the Chinese military intelligence Has anyone come forward with /any/ hard evidence that implicates huawei spying on their customers? This is my biggest gripe in this whole mess. The fact that no evidence has surfaced yet, despite how easily obtainable it would be for govs, indicates to me that that these accusations are motivated by geopolitics and have little to do with whether huawei customers are being spied upon or not. As for disingenuity, I think that hurtling accusations at people without any sort of supporting evidence is what's disgustingly disingenuous.
- creato 8y ago
  It seems silly to debate the existence of the possibility that Huawei can spy on their customers or whether it has happened before. They ship binary blob software updates to the hardware routinely, as does any other vendor of this kind of equipment. The only reasonable question is whether you believe Huawei will exploit this opportunity if asked or "asked" by the Chinese government.
  - jake_the_third 8y ago
    Perhaps, but then following the same line of logic would make all hardware vendors equally suspect. All hardware vendors will eventually comply if "asked" by their government (including US, remember prism?). The only difference is the formalities followed. I plan to continue using huawei as long as their pricing remains competitive or real hard evidence of foulplay is made public. Expecting people to single out a single vendor just because the a government with a history of lying said so is just silly.

rodneyzeng 8y ago

Huawei is singled out? No, Huawei is repsected as public benefit or national benefit in China. Listen to the new "public benefit" song "Huawei's beauty": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c0tvr5ETVdE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c0tvr5ETVdE. Huawei is never singled out - it is protected by Chinese government, supported by Chinese government and run by Chinese government. It is not open to the market.