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> You underestimate the value of uniformity and group pressure. I don't, because I've worked in both kinds of environments and have not seen any benefits to th

> You underestimate the value of uniformity and group pressure. I don't, because I've worked in both kinds of environments and have not seen any benefits to the system you propose. Uniform development machines doesn't automatically mean that you've solved all consistency problems. Also, I'm not sure what you mean by "build tools" specifically, but any software needed for a project to run should ideally live within a Vagrant VM (or Docker or whatever), so it should be self-contained and not require any installation of additional software. > How did you pick up a programming language and editor in the first place? How did you pick up a new one? It was fine. IME, it takes several months to really become fluent and productive in a new editor, and potentially longer for a new language (depending on previous experience, etc). So "it's fine" as long as you consider a multi-month learning curve "fine".

z3t4 8y ago
> IME, it takes several months to really become fluent and productive in a new editor I'm interested to know what editors you have switched to/from and why. Example, switched from emacs to vi because manager forced us to, etc.
- RussianCow 8y ago
  I've tried many editors for various reasons, although I've never been forced to learn a new one for work. (The time I worked at a place where everyone used the same editor, it happened to be IntelliJ, with which I was already familiar.) The most difficult was when I switched to Vim fulltime to learn it. It took me about a year to really "grok" it and become productive. I've also done the same with Atom and VS Code, but those never felt as productive for me, so I gave up a month or two in. I keep coming back to IntelliJ, which is what I use now, because it fits so well with the way I work and I'm most productive with it.
0db532a0 8y ago
Docker, Vagrant, build tools are all the same. They should just be uniform. Don't hire someone unexperienced in the uniform language. After that, one-time investment in assimilation to the uniform environment. That versus never-ending loss.
- RussianCow 8y ago
  I completely agree with all of that, but I don't see what that has to do with your choice of editor or OS. If you use Vagrant/Docker, all your build tools should live there, so it doesn't matter what OS you use. I don't see what "never-ending loss" you face when people use different OSes or editors; I've never faced that in practice as it literally doesn't matter.
  - 0db532a0 8y ago
    You’ve moved the OS into the docker image, so it’s basically the same OS, therefore I’m satisfied. What runs the docker image is less important, but it would be better to have uniform computers and OS in case one of them breaks. You can replace it much more easily. What remains is editor/IDE. I’m still of the opinion that everyone should use the same development environment, preferably a full-fledged IDE which enforces code style at write time. This also prevents the bad diff issue, amongst a lot of the more important problems I’ve explained elsewhere. Of course it’s all a matter of opinion. I base this opinion on how I experienced this environment. Nowhere else I’ve worked managed to get so much done and collaborate so easily.

z3t4 8y ago

> IME, it takes several months to really become fluent and productive in a new editor I'm interested to know what editors you have switched to/from and why. Example, switched from emacs to vi because manager forced us to, etc.

RussianCow 8y ago
I've tried many editors for various reasons, although I've never been forced to learn a new one for work. (The time I worked at a place where everyone used the same editor, it happened to be IntelliJ, with which I was already familiar.) The most difficult was when I switched to Vim fulltime to learn it. It took me about a year to really "grok" it and become productive. I've also done the same with Atom and VS Code, but those never felt as productive for me, so I gave up a month or two in. I keep coming back to IntelliJ, which is what I use now, because it fits so well with the way I work and I'm most productive with it.

0db532a0 8y ago

Docker, Vagrant, build tools are all the same. They should just be uniform. Don't hire someone unexperienced in the uniform language. After that, one-time investment in assimilation to the uniform environment. That versus never-ending loss.

RussianCow 8y ago
I completely agree with all of that, but I don't see what that has to do with your choice of editor or OS. If you use Vagrant/Docker, all your build tools should live there, so it doesn't matter what OS you use. I don't see what "never-ending loss" you face when people use different OSes or editors; I've never faced that in practice as it literally doesn't matter.
- 0db532a0 8y ago
  You’ve moved the OS into the docker image, so it’s basically the same OS, therefore I’m satisfied. What runs the docker image is less important, but it would be better to have uniform computers and OS in case one of them breaks. You can replace it much more easily. What remains is editor/IDE. I’m still of the opinion that everyone should use the same development environment, preferably a full-fledged IDE which enforces code style at write time. This also prevents the bad diff issue, amongst a lot of the more important problems I’ve explained elsewhere. Of course it’s all a matter of opinion. I base this opinion on how I experienced this environment. Nowhere else I’ve worked managed to get so much done and collaborate so easily.