4 ms·

The real-world choice is not (tabs) || (spaces), it's (tabs && spaces) || (spaces). Which is why spaces is the objectively superior choice.

int_19h 8y ago
It depends on the exact formatting used. Many popular schemes only require tabs at the beginning of the line, and are not dependent on tab size.
u801e 8y ago
Using hanging indents for line continuations solves this issue by making the choice of using tabs or spaces a non-issue.
mruts 8y ago
Tabs allow each developer to choose his level of indentation. I think personal choice and flexibility to always be the objectively superior choice.
RussianCow 8y ago
That's not true if your code style doesn't allow visually lining things up. Then tabs will only ever act as standard indentation, and so tabs vs spaces doesn't actually matter aside from enforcing line length.
seabird 8y ago
In any project I've worked on that has used tabs for indentation, I've found no need to combine tabs and spaces. I've never been anywhere that enforces neurotic alignment standards, and if such guidelines aren't part of your workflow, I don't know why anyone would consciously inflict spaces upon themselves or their team. Some editors handle them like shit, and formatting fuckups always find their way in unless you're using an autoformatter. The only arguments I hear for spaces are alignment (I don't have time to give a shit about such minor aesthetic preferences) and forcing other people to see code a certain way (I really don't understand why I would want to force my editing preferences on others). I don't think either one of them justifies the annoyance of spaces.
- chrisweekly 8y ago
  Huh? You say "[I wouldn't] force my editing preferences on others", yet you want to insist on inserting invisible whitespace characters into shared source code. That seems inconsistent to me.
  - saagarjha 8y ago
    That's a disingenuous misinterpretation of the comment. There's a clear difference between "I'd like code to be indented", which is widely agreed upon to be a good idea, and "you need to see my code indented with four characters because I hardcoded this into my source code", which is personal preference.
  - seabird 8y ago
    They are invisible whitespace characters that are handled reliably and flexibly in every editor that I've ever used them in. The same cannot be said for spaces. If a codebase is using two space indenting, I get to look at the resulting puke (this is subjective, of course) on my screen. I might be able to do some hackjob fix to change how they're displayed, but why should I have to? There's a character that satisfies both me and the animal that wanted to indent their code with 2 spaces.
saagarjha 8y ago
You’re jumping to conclusions. Projects use both tabs and spaces because they have different purposes: tabs are for indentation, and spaces are for alignment. When you use spaces exclusively, you’re conflating the two and requiring tooling to be more complex to handle figuring out what you meant semantically from a lossy format. (Also, many people use who use tabs will do so exclusively and give up alignment, for simplicity’s sake.)
- chrisweekly 8y ago
  I'm not jumping to anything. Rather, I'm sharing my observations. I've been in the field for 20 years, and I stand by my point, which is that spaces will always find their way into a project. Projects that use tabs inevitably end up containing spaces too; not because of an intended specialized use case, but because of human nature.
  - saagarjha 8y ago
    Human nature being that people who prefer spaces will end up inserting them where they don't belong, and then have the gall to blame tabs for being confusing because they messed up the indentation :/

int_19h 8y ago

It depends on the exact formatting used. Many popular schemes only require tabs at the beginning of the line, and are not dependent on tab size.

u801e 8y ago

Using hanging indents for line continuations solves this issue by making the choice of using tabs or spaces a non-issue.

mruts 8y ago

Tabs allow each developer to choose his level of indentation. I think personal choice and flexibility to always be the objectively superior choice.

RussianCow 8y ago

That's not true if your code style doesn't allow visually lining things up. Then tabs will only ever act as standard indentation, and so tabs vs spaces doesn't actually matter aside from enforcing line length.

seabird 8y ago

In any project I've worked on that has used tabs for indentation, I've found no need to combine tabs and spaces. I've never been anywhere that enforces neurotic alignment standards, and if such guidelines aren't part of your workflow, I don't know why anyone would consciously inflict spaces upon themselves or their team. Some editors handle them like shit, and formatting fuckups always find their way in unless you're using an autoformatter. The only arguments I hear for spaces are alignment (I don't have time to give a shit about such minor aesthetic preferences) and forcing other people to see code a certain way (I really don't understand why I would want to force my editing preferences on others). I don't think either one of them justifies the annoyance of spaces.

chrisweekly 8y ago
Huh? You say "[I wouldn't] force my editing preferences on others", yet you want to insist on inserting invisible whitespace characters into shared source code. That seems inconsistent to me.
- saagarjha 8y ago
  That's a disingenuous misinterpretation of the comment. There's a clear difference between "I'd like code to be indented", which is widely agreed upon to be a good idea, and "you need to see my code indented with four characters because I hardcoded this into my source code", which is personal preference.
- seabird 8y ago
  They are invisible whitespace characters that are handled reliably and flexibly in every editor that I've ever used them in. The same cannot be said for spaces. If a codebase is using two space indenting, I get to look at the resulting puke (this is subjective, of course) on my screen. I might be able to do some hackjob fix to change how they're displayed, but why should I have to? There's a character that satisfies both me and the animal that wanted to indent their code with 2 spaces.

saagarjha 8y ago

You’re jumping to conclusions. Projects use both tabs and spaces because they have different purposes: tabs are for indentation, and spaces are for alignment. When you use spaces exclusively, you’re conflating the two and requiring tooling to be more complex to handle figuring out what you meant semantically from a lossy format. (Also, many people use who use tabs will do so exclusively and give up alignment, for simplicity’s sake.)

chrisweekly 8y ago
I'm not jumping to anything. Rather, I'm sharing my observations. I've been in the field for 20 years, and I stand by my point, which is that spaces will always find their way into a project. Projects that use tabs inevitably end up containing spaces too; not because of an intended specialized use case, but because of human nature.
- saagarjha 8y ago
  Human nature being that people who prefer spaces will end up inserting them where they don't belong, and then have the gall to blame tabs for being confusing because they messed up the indentation :/