6 ms·

About time. I had the "luck" of working for multiple German companies (including Volkswagen) and I'm surprised how these behemoths still function. As a grunt p

by edem 8y ago

About time. I had the "luck" of working for multiple German companies (including Volkswagen) and I'm surprised how these behemoths still function. As a grunt programmer, it was painful to see how the upper management made decisions based on politics which made no technological sense whatsoever. In my years of working for German companies I saw multiple project reboots, millions of $s thrown out of the window on failed projects and the worst thing is that there is literally no flow of information from bottom to top. No matter how smart you are if someone is above you in the hierarchy you are nothing, no one. I hope they will fail spectacularly and learn this hard lesson finally.

iagovar 8y ago
They won't learn. I work for another euro behemoth and it's exactly the situation you describe. As long as they pay me and support my lifestyle I have no problem, but Im already tired of trying to fight the nonsense. Sadly Im not a programmer so finding other companies with the same conditions is hard.
- edem 8y ago
  I'd really like to be able to just sit and do the work and don't care about these things (I'm not talking about you but the ability in general). I just can't help myself. I'm always trying to fix things but with a company like this it feels like as if I was trying to climb the Mount Everest.
  - iagovar 8y ago
    Well, I got to a point that I had to decide. If I hop to another job I'll work more hours, for less money, and I won't be able to stay here, which is nice because I have both my job and the beach on a 5 minutes distance walk.
- lnsru 8y ago
  Exact my situation. Working for a company with roots in Siemens. The culture is terrible, must fight the nonsense to get some meaningful task. Getting insane money for doing nothing, loosing skills every month, mental health suffers, but family depends on my income. Finding other companies in Germany with similar conditions is hard, looking now in Switzerland.
  - kayoone 8y ago
    What are you doing exactly? Come to Berlin :)
    - deleted 8y ago
      [deleted]
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
- drdeadringer 8y ago
  I am reminded of a Tom Lehrer lyric/song: "As long as They, give me my pay, I'll do it Their way!" There are many ways to live for and against this. These days I'm not sure if there's a wrong or correct answer for most things, though I do still have a rather mobile and grey line that can be crossed.
iamctobitch 8y ago
>I'm surprised how these behemoths still function. You haven't seen Brazilian or India companies in comparison with same level of buercracy and lacking in resources and technology. German companies are still working because rest of the world is soo bad in comparison. But this is changing as China/US will compete directly head to head in EV segment and both of them already have massive software ecosystem which did not thrive under German executive mindset for now.
- edem 8y ago
  I've seen "The Big Short" movie lately and I was flabbergasted about how the finance industry works. I'm beginning to realize that this pattern is universal in all industries. I also see that we as a species are suffering from the same mechanism. We won't learn until it is too late. I want to understand the pattern so I can find a way out of it somehow. BTW: where do you work as a CTO?
  - sievebrain 8y ago
    I think with software specifically it's less dysfunctional in the tech industry.
- Brakenshire 8y ago
  Do those companies really have a problem with software? I’d imagine most of the software in cars is embedded, for controlling different mechanisms for the brakes, steering, cooling, etc. For those, I would prefer a stuffy bureacratic process rather than a Tesla, SV style move-fast attitude, even if that is more productive. I want software in a car to be finished and tested fully when the car is delivered, and then to disappear, I would consider it a failure if the company has to fix or alter safety critical parts of the software after it has been delivered, and I’d prefer that process to happen through some highly controlled process linked to servicing or recall, and not through random frequent OTA updates which are being thrown out. I really can't see how monthly updates can be properly checked for safety.
  - ivan_gammel 8y ago
dabeeeenster 8y ago
You're describing all large organisations, pretty much.
- edem 8y ago
  I'm not sure. I think this hierarchical nonsense is a German thing. I've worked for IBM and it was a different experience. Still dysfunctional, but in a different way. I never felt at IBM that I was not heard. I also see how Microsoft fixed itself and turned itself around which is an admirable achievement.
  - leonroy 8y ago
    That’s surprising about IBM but good to hear - was your experience there before or after Lou Gerstner’s turnaround?
    - edem 8y ago
      After!
- rasz 8y ago
  In most corpos your good idea will be stolen, in EU it has equal if not greater chance of being ignored.

by edem 8y ago

iagovar 8y ago

They won't learn. I work for another euro behemoth and it's exactly the situation you describe. As long as they pay me and support my lifestyle I have no problem, but Im already tired of trying to fight the nonsense. Sadly Im not a programmer so finding other companies with the same conditions is hard.

edem 8y ago
I'd really like to be able to just sit and do the work and don't care about these things (I'm not talking about you but the ability in general). I just can't help myself. I'm always trying to fix things but with a company like this it feels like as if I was trying to climb the Mount Everest.
- iagovar 8y ago
  Well, I got to a point that I had to decide. If I hop to another job I'll work more hours, for less money, and I won't be able to stay here, which is nice because I have both my job and the beach on a 5 minutes distance walk.
lnsru 8y ago
Exact my situation. Working for a company with roots in Siemens. The culture is terrible, must fight the nonsense to get some meaningful task. Getting insane money for doing nothing, loosing skills every month, mental health suffers, but family depends on my income. Finding other companies in Germany with similar conditions is hard, looking now in Switzerland.
- kayoone 8y ago
  What are you doing exactly? Come to Berlin :)
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
drdeadringer 8y ago
I am reminded of a Tom Lehrer lyric/song: "As long as They, give me my pay, I'll do it Their way!" There are many ways to live for and against this. These days I'm not sure if there's a wrong or correct answer for most things, though I do still have a rather mobile and grey line that can be crossed.

iamctobitch 8y ago

>I'm surprised how these behemoths still function. You haven't seen Brazilian or India companies in comparison with same level of buercracy and lacking in resources and technology. German companies are still working because rest of the world is soo bad in comparison. But this is changing as China/US will compete directly head to head in EV segment and both of them already have massive software ecosystem which did not thrive under German executive mindset for now.

edem 8y ago
I've seen "The Big Short" movie lately and I was flabbergasted about how the finance industry works. I'm beginning to realize that this pattern is universal in all industries. I also see that we as a species are suffering from the same mechanism. We won't learn until it is too late. I want to understand the pattern so I can find a way out of it somehow. BTW: where do you work as a CTO?
- sievebrain 8y ago
  I think with software specifically it's less dysfunctional in the tech industry.
Brakenshire 8y ago
Do those companies really have a problem with software? I’d imagine most of the software in cars is embedded, for controlling different mechanisms for the brakes, steering, cooling, etc. For those, I would prefer a stuffy bureacratic process rather than a Tesla, SV style move-fast attitude, even if that is more productive. I want software in a car to be finished and tested fully when the car is delivered, and then to disappear, I would consider it a failure if the company has to fix or alter safety critical parts of the software after it has been delivered, and I’d prefer that process to happen through some highly controlled process linked to servicing or recall, and not through random frequent OTA updates which are being thrown out. I really can't see how monthly updates can be properly checked for safety.
- ivan_gammel 8y ago

dabeeeenster 8y ago

You're describing all large organisations, pretty much.

edem 8y ago
I'm not sure. I think this hierarchical nonsense is a German thing. I've worked for IBM and it was a different experience. Still dysfunctional, but in a different way. I never felt at IBM that I was not heard. I also see how Microsoft fixed itself and turned itself around which is an admirable achievement.
- leonroy 8y ago
  That’s surprising about IBM but good to hear - was your experience there before or after Lou Gerstner’s turnaround?
  - edem 8y ago
    After!
rasz 8y ago
In most corpos your good idea will be stolen, in EU it has equal if not greater chance of being ignored.