4 ms·

I totally agree the dim to dark is an amazing feature before bed. I just wish they would use something better than a 2700K LED if it's supposed to be used in th

I totally agree the dim to dark is an amazing feature before bed. I just wish they would use something better than a 2700K LED if it's supposed to be used in the 15-45 minutes before sleep. In my opinion, if people are able to sleep in darkness, they should, and it's not a good habit to start kids out sleeping with the lights on.

ticmasta 8y ago
>> and it's not a good habit to start kids out sleeping with the lights on. Why? I usually see issues going the other way, where kids from birth get absolute quiet and dark, then can't get to sleep without those conditions for the rest of their lives (i.e. adults who need blackout curtains and ear plugs to sleep).
- asteli 8y ago
  I've wondered about that -- my partner and her cousin both grew up in the Midwest and need white noise and eyeshades to sleep. For reference we live in the SF Bay. I grew up here and can sleep through damn near anything. I'm curious how much of the difference is due to childhood locality vs genetics vs child-rearing practices.
  - elbear 8y ago
    Have you ever tried sleeping with eyeshades? It has been shown[1] that even small sources of light can inhibit the secretion of melatonin (the hormone that regulates the circadian rhythm and consequently sleep). If you use eyeshades, you might feel more rested in the morning (if your bedrooms is not already pitch black dark, that is). As a personal anecdote, I always feel less rested when I don't use eyeshades. [1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3567262 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3567262
- yeutterg 8y ago
  I'm not a doctor, but we know about the negative effects of light on sleep. Our species evolved with little nighttime light, and we know the mechanism by which our circadian rhythms are tricked by artificial light. Most sleep experts (including pediatric sleep experts) recommend blacking out your room, removing all electronics, etc. Perhaps an expert in this area can chime in, but I don't think light during sleep is positive.
  - kortilla 8y ago
    Did the moon not exist during evolution?
    - yeutterg 8y ago
      It did, and it actually does have a circadian effect. But it has much less illuminance than most artificial light sources. That's what I mean when I say "little nighttime light."
    - crooked-v 8y ago
      The full moon under the best possible conditions can reach about 0.3 lux illumination. By comparison, phone and laptop screens start around 400 lux and go up from there.
    - thisisweirdok 8y ago
      The moon at its brightest is about 0.5 lux, and that's at its peak... once a month (waxes and wanes obviously). Many nightlights I've tried are at least 0.5 lux depending on distance, but are often higher (1 lux or more)
      - Someone 8y ago
        ”moon at its brightest is about 0.5 lux” Given the wonders of dark adaptation of the human eye (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adaptation_(eye)#Dark_adaptation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adaptation_(eye)#Dark_adaptati...), does that really matter? In my experience, the full moon is almost bright enough to comfortably read normal black on white printed text.
        URSpider94 8y ago
        Many of the mechanisms for light impacting biological functions show a clear dose-response relationship - fewer photons hitting the retina leads to less effect. As a rough estimate, one decade (10x) of the eye’s light adaptation, at most, comes from aperture variation - the pupil expanding and contracting. The rest comes from intensity-driven modification of the sensing and image processing systems in the eye - rods that are completely saturated with signal above a few dozen lux become the primary sensors in very low light. In other words - just because the moon provides enough light to see and even read doesn’t mean that it will cause insomnia.
- LeifCarrotson 8y ago
  Absolute quiet provided by a white-noise sound machine, plus darkness provided by blackout curtains, was/is crucial in helping my toddler get healthy, successful naps. Without them, he would not be able to sleep with the afternoon sun pouring in the window while listening to Mom and Dad putter about the house. It does make me worry how we'll wean him off the sound machine.

ticmasta 8y ago

>> and it's not a good habit to start kids out sleeping with the lights on. Why? I usually see issues going the other way, where kids from birth get absolute quiet and dark, then can't get to sleep without those conditions for the rest of their lives (i.e. adults who need blackout curtains and ear plugs to sleep).

asteli 8y ago
I've wondered about that -- my partner and her cousin both grew up in the Midwest and need white noise and eyeshades to sleep. For reference we live in the SF Bay. I grew up here and can sleep through damn near anything. I'm curious how much of the difference is due to childhood locality vs genetics vs child-rearing practices.
- elbear 8y ago
  Have you ever tried sleeping with eyeshades? It has been shown[1] that even small sources of light can inhibit the secretion of melatonin (the hormone that regulates the circadian rhythm and consequently sleep). If you use eyeshades, you might feel more rested in the morning (if your bedrooms is not already pitch black dark, that is). As a personal anecdote, I always feel less rested when I don't use eyeshades. [1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3567262 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3567262
yeutterg 8y ago
I'm not a doctor, but we know about the negative effects of light on sleep. Our species evolved with little nighttime light, and we know the mechanism by which our circadian rhythms are tricked by artificial light. Most sleep experts (including pediatric sleep experts) recommend blacking out your room, removing all electronics, etc. Perhaps an expert in this area can chime in, but I don't think light during sleep is positive.
- kortilla 8y ago
  Did the moon not exist during evolution?
  - yeutterg 8y ago
    It did, and it actually does have a circadian effect. But it has much less illuminance than most artificial light sources. That's what I mean when I say "little nighttime light."
  - crooked-v 8y ago
    The full moon under the best possible conditions can reach about 0.3 lux illumination. By comparison, phone and laptop screens start around 400 lux and go up from there.
  - thisisweirdok 8y ago
    The moon at its brightest is about 0.5 lux, and that's at its peak... once a month (waxes and wanes obviously). Many nightlights I've tried are at least 0.5 lux depending on distance, but are often higher (1 lux or more)
    - Someone 8y ago
      ”moon at its brightest is about 0.5 lux” Given the wonders of dark adaptation of the human eye (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adaptation_(eye)#Dark_adaptation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adaptation_(eye)#Dark_adaptati...), does that really matter? In my experience, the full moon is almost bright enough to comfortably read normal black on white printed text.
      - URSpider94 8y ago
        Many of the mechanisms for light impacting biological functions show a clear dose-response relationship - fewer photons hitting the retina leads to less effect. As a rough estimate, one decade (10x) of the eye’s light adaptation, at most, comes from aperture variation - the pupil expanding and contracting. The rest comes from intensity-driven modification of the sensing and image processing systems in the eye - rods that are completely saturated with signal above a few dozen lux become the primary sensors in very low light. In other words - just because the moon provides enough light to see and even read doesn’t mean that it will cause insomnia.
LeifCarrotson 8y ago
Absolute quiet provided by a white-noise sound machine, plus darkness provided by blackout curtains, was/is crucial in helping my toddler get healthy, successful naps. Without them, he would not be able to sleep with the afternoon sun pouring in the window while listening to Mom and Dad putter about the house. It does make me worry how we'll wean him off the sound machine.