6 ms·

2018 revenue of $2.16B, with a loss of $911.3M. Oof. Though as a passenger I can't say I mind buying $2 bills for $1!

tomalpha 8y ago
In terms of scale, these numbers appear to be similar in scale to Uber's quarterly numbers [0] of $2.95B and a loss of $1.07B. (Yes I know I'm off by several hundred million in revenue!) [0] https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-11-14/uber-revenue-slows-as-quarterly-loss-surges-to-1-1-billion https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-11-14/uber-reve...
Fordec 8y ago
20% of Uber's revenue with 50% in losses.[0] I want to see Lyft succeed just to counter Uber, but yeah, those numbers need to be healthier [0] https://www.reuters.com/article/us-uber-results/uber-posts-50-billion-in-annual-bookings-as-profit-remains-elusive-ahead-of-ipo-idUSKCN1Q42CI https://www.reuters.com/article/us-uber-results/uber-posts-5...
- ngngngng 8y ago
  It really feels like a game of who can lose money the longest.
- jjeaff 8y ago
  That fully depends on what the losses are. I haven't read their financials, but if the losses are from expansion and other investment but their unit profitability is good, then it's not a problem. They can always pull back on investing in growth just to reap profits.
  - misun78 8y ago
    But this is where their one-trick pony hurts them. Where will growth come from if they stop growing in the one market they're currently in?
darkerside 8y ago
2017 Compared to 2018 * As a percentage of revenue, cost of revenue decreased from 62% to 58%. * As a percentage of revenue, sales and marketing expenses decreased from 54% to 37%. These seem to be positive signs.
- docker_up 8y ago
  That's like saying "The cancer ravaging your body is down from 62% to 58%" It's a positive trajectory but don't confuse trajectory with absolute value.
  - darkwizard42 8y ago
    Thats how companies work though... no one expects Lyft to be immediately profitable. The company will be rewarded by public markets if its able to keep up that trajectory
    - docker_up 8y ago
      No, most companies do not work this way. Most companies that lose this staggering amount of money go out of business quickly. We are living in a time of "eventual profitability" where some companies have immense privilege to lose an immense amount of money, are encouraged to lose it to build a large company in hopes of creating a sustainable model. Right now there's not even profitability on the horizon. Losses increase with more revenues which is horrible. All we saw was a negative 2nd derivative of cash loss but there's no telling whether the delta will be fast enough to produce an actually profitable company.
      - jhall1468 8y ago
        No offense but Amazon did exactly this for nearly 2 decades. I don't know why you think Lyft is somehow an exception to the rule. They aren't. Hyper Growth is not the stage you start looking at P/L statements. If they were generating big profits, there would be little point in going public at all.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
ihuman 8y ago
Depends on how you look at it. $1.24B profit sounds pretty good to me.
- piker 8y ago
  Not a correct reading. They had negative nine figures of "profit".
  - ihuman 8y ago
    I don't understand. How could they make more revenue than what they lost for the year, but have a negative profit? The loss doesn't subtract enough from the revenue to go less than 0.
    - feynmanistheman 8y ago
      Revenue is how much people have paid them. Since costs > revenue, their profit is negative. The loss already takes into account their revenue.
    - ashleyw 8y ago
      They received $2B in revenue but spent close to $3B.
  - ehostunreach 8y ago
    > They had negative nine figures of (profit). FTFY
deepVoid 8y ago
Time to short Lyft once it goes public.
SilasX 8y ago
Right, but is this "selling $2 bills for $1" or is it "selling $1 bills for $1.10 and spending $1 billion to tell people about the offer"? People have mistakenly accused both Uber and Amazon of doing the former when they were doing the latter.
kccqzy 8y ago
As a passenger I've found my Lyft prices to be steadily increasing. In the beginning they were cheaper and more reliable than Uber; then I stopped comparing prices until one day I found that Lyft charges much more than Uber. There was a time when both my friend and I were trying to use Lyft to book the same trip with the same destination, and yet my price was 20% higher than hers.
- eeeeeeeeeeeee 8y ago
  I’ve noticed the same. I rarely ever see Lyft as the cheaper option now.
Areading314 8y ago
Looks like they skewed their charts to make their growth look bigger. Seems pretty disingenuous, especially for an official filing: https://imgur.com/a/NaroN6P https://imgur.com/a/NaroN6P
throwaway-1283 8y ago
The fact this might IPO at $20b is insane...that is the same as United Airlines which made $38b in revenue in 2017 and is profitable.
taurath 8y ago
I dunno, they’re just as expensive to get to JFK from Manhattan as a yellow cab. Maybe they’re loss leading in small markets

In terms of scale, these numbers appear to be similar in scale to Uber's quarterly numbers [0] of $2.95B and a loss of $1.07B. (Yes I know I'm off by several hundred million in revenue!) [0] https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-11-14/uber-revenue-slows-as-quarterly-loss-surges-to-1-1-billion https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-11-14/uber-reve...

Fordec 8y ago

20% of Uber's revenue with 50% in losses.[0] I want to see Lyft succeed just to counter Uber, but yeah, those numbers need to be healthier [0] https://www.reuters.com/article/us-uber-results/uber-posts-50-billion-in-annual-bookings-as-profit-remains-elusive-ahead-of-ipo-idUSKCN1Q42CI https://www.reuters.com/article/us-uber-results/uber-posts-5...

ngngngng 8y ago
It really feels like a game of who can lose money the longest.
jjeaff 8y ago
That fully depends on what the losses are. I haven't read their financials, but if the losses are from expansion and other investment but their unit profitability is good, then it's not a problem. They can always pull back on investing in growth just to reap profits.
- misun78 8y ago
  But this is where their one-trick pony hurts them. Where will growth come from if they stop growing in the one market they're currently in?

darkerside 8y ago

2017 Compared to 2018 * As a percentage of revenue, cost of revenue decreased from 62% to 58%. * As a percentage of revenue, sales and marketing expenses decreased from 54% to 37%. These seem to be positive signs.

docker_up 8y ago
That's like saying "The cancer ravaging your body is down from 62% to 58%" It's a positive trajectory but don't confuse trajectory with absolute value.
- darkwizard42 8y ago
  Thats how companies work though... no one expects Lyft to be immediately profitable. The company will be rewarded by public markets if its able to keep up that trajectory
  - docker_up 8y ago
    No, most companies do not work this way. Most companies that lose this staggering amount of money go out of business quickly. We are living in a time of "eventual profitability" where some companies have immense privilege to lose an immense amount of money, are encouraged to lose it to build a large company in hopes of creating a sustainable model. Right now there's not even profitability on the horizon. Losses increase with more revenues which is horrible. All we saw was a negative 2nd derivative of cash loss but there's no telling whether the delta will be fast enough to produce an actually profitable company.
    - jhall1468 8y ago
      No offense but Amazon did exactly this for nearly 2 decades. I don't know why you think Lyft is somehow an exception to the rule. They aren't. Hyper Growth is not the stage you start looking at P/L statements. If they were generating big profits, there would be little point in going public at all.

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

ihuman 8y ago

Depends on how you look at it. $1.24B profit sounds pretty good to me.

piker 8y ago
Not a correct reading. They had negative nine figures of "profit".
- ihuman 8y ago
  I don't understand. How could they make more revenue than what they lost for the year, but have a negative profit? The loss doesn't subtract enough from the revenue to go less than 0.
  - feynmanistheman 8y ago
    Revenue is how much people have paid them. Since costs > revenue, their profit is negative. The loss already takes into account their revenue.
  - ashleyw 8y ago
    They received $2B in revenue but spent close to $3B.
- ehostunreach 8y ago
  > They had negative nine figures of (profit). FTFY

deepVoid 8y ago

Time to short Lyft once it goes public.

SilasX 8y ago

Right, but is this "selling $2 bills for $1" or is it "selling $1 bills for $1.10 and spending $1 billion to tell people about the offer"? People have mistakenly accused both Uber and Amazon of doing the former when they were doing the latter.

kccqzy 8y ago

As a passenger I've found my Lyft prices to be steadily increasing. In the beginning they were cheaper and more reliable than Uber; then I stopped comparing prices until one day I found that Lyft charges much more than Uber. There was a time when both my friend and I were trying to use Lyft to book the same trip with the same destination, and yet my price was 20% higher than hers.

eeeeeeeeeeeee 8y ago
I’ve noticed the same. I rarely ever see Lyft as the cheaper option now.

Areading314 8y ago

Looks like they skewed their charts to make their growth look bigger. Seems pretty disingenuous, especially for an official filing: https://imgur.com/a/NaroN6P https://imgur.com/a/NaroN6P

throwaway-1283 8y ago

The fact this might IPO at $20b is insane...that is the same as United Airlines which made $38b in revenue in 2017 and is profitable.

taurath 8y ago

I dunno, they’re just as expensive to get to JFK from Manhattan as a yellow cab. Maybe they’re loss leading in small markets