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When this has happened to me, I've never had anyone outright refuse to move. I have also found myself accidentally in other people's reserved seats, and have mo

by dTal 8y ago

When this has happened to me, I've never had anyone outright refuse to move. I have also found myself accidentally in other people's reserved seats, and have moved when politely asked. I imagine that in the event of a refusal to move, you'd take it to the conductor, who I assume has the power to fine, forcibly move, or eject people (backed by the power of the police). You certainly wouldn't suck it up and stand for hours. Just seems like something a civil society can deal with quite easily without resorting to black marks on people's "permanent record" (which in this case seems to be functioning as a kind of parallel judicial system).

johnisgood 8y ago
> Just seems like something a civil society can deal with quite easily without resorting to black marks on people's "permanent record" (which in this case seems to be functioning as a kind of parallel judicial system). Exactly. I never had issues that could not have been easily resolved. Most people where I live is very careful about not being a douche, despite not having to fear that the Government will punish them.
- echaozh 8y ago
  First, refusing to leave the reserved seat has happened, and more than once in China. Secondly, the punishment is not by the government, but by the train company. When videos of people refusing to leave reserved seats went viral on the web, most people wanted them to be punished by not being able to take trains, at least for some period of time. So the punishment is actually a populist opinion, rather than designated by the government. The government didn't want to step in before the people's outcry. So it's not a conspiracy of the government to "tame" the people. Perhaps you can say the people were "silly" to summon such rules unto themselves. Just like how the American people voted Trump onto the throne.
  - johnisgood 8y ago
    > First, refusing to leave the reserved seat has happened, and more than once in China I am not saying it did not happen in China. I was talking about my country. I cannot remember anyone not giving me my reserved seat, nor have I ever heard of such a thing happening here to anyone, where "here" is not China. This is my experience, and I believe we are sharing experiences. > Secondly, the punishment is not by the government, but by the train company. Train companies are owned by the state, but private businesses also have to have a CCP committee and respond to the instructions of the party, so either directly or indirectly, yes, it is coming from the Government, the government that developed the Social Credit System. > When videos of people refusing to leave reserved seats went viral on the web, most people wanted them to be punished by not being able to take trains, at least for some period of time. So the punishment is actually a populist opinion, rather than designated by the government. The government didn't want to step in before the people's outcry. Are you talking about Chinese people? Because this certainly does not hold true for the people in my country. Even if it does, it is not indicative of anything. People say all sorts of crap over the Internet that they do not mean, do not do or say in real life. Take a look at the comment section of videos where someone is handling an animal improperly due to sheer ignorance. Most of the commentators will say they want to kill that person in the video and so on and so on. Anyway, the point is that my country has very different values or culture. China goes so much further with the human search engine, where they will post images of people publicly and people will go out of their way to identify them, hunt them down, etc. It is not about public shaming anymore like it is the case here. https://youtu.be/hWwehE88XjI https://youtu.be/hWwehE88XjI
martin_a 8y ago
> without resorting to black marks on people's "permanent record" I think the whole point of this system is to "encourage" good behavior and to punish "bad" behavior, while the definition of bad can be a very broad one, so people start to change behavior. I'm not even sure if I would count this to a parallel judicial system or just "controlling the masses".
- leereeves 8y ago
  China doesn't have an independent judicial system. Chinese courts are just another means for the CCP to control the masses.

by dTal 8y ago

johnisgood 8y ago

> Just seems like something a civil society can deal with quite easily without resorting to black marks on people's "permanent record" (which in this case seems to be functioning as a kind of parallel judicial system). Exactly. I never had issues that could not have been easily resolved. Most people where I live is very careful about not being a douche, despite not having to fear that the Government will punish them.

echaozh 8y ago
First, refusing to leave the reserved seat has happened, and more than once in China. Secondly, the punishment is not by the government, but by the train company. When videos of people refusing to leave reserved seats went viral on the web, most people wanted them to be punished by not being able to take trains, at least for some period of time. So the punishment is actually a populist opinion, rather than designated by the government. The government didn't want to step in before the people's outcry. So it's not a conspiracy of the government to "tame" the people. Perhaps you can say the people were "silly" to summon such rules unto themselves. Just like how the American people voted Trump onto the throne.
- johnisgood 8y ago
  > First, refusing to leave the reserved seat has happened, and more than once in China I am not saying it did not happen in China. I was talking about my country. I cannot remember anyone not giving me my reserved seat, nor have I ever heard of such a thing happening here to anyone, where "here" is not China. This is my experience, and I believe we are sharing experiences. > Secondly, the punishment is not by the government, but by the train company. Train companies are owned by the state, but private businesses also have to have a CCP committee and respond to the instructions of the party, so either directly or indirectly, yes, it is coming from the Government, the government that developed the Social Credit System. > When videos of people refusing to leave reserved seats went viral on the web, most people wanted them to be punished by not being able to take trains, at least for some period of time. So the punishment is actually a populist opinion, rather than designated by the government. The government didn't want to step in before the people's outcry. Are you talking about Chinese people? Because this certainly does not hold true for the people in my country. Even if it does, it is not indicative of anything. People say all sorts of crap over the Internet that they do not mean, do not do or say in real life. Take a look at the comment section of videos where someone is handling an animal improperly due to sheer ignorance. Most of the commentators will say they want to kill that person in the video and so on and so on. Anyway, the point is that my country has very different values or culture. China goes so much further with the human search engine, where they will post images of people publicly and people will go out of their way to identify them, hunt them down, etc. It is not about public shaming anymore like it is the case here. https://youtu.be/hWwehE88XjI https://youtu.be/hWwehE88XjI

martin_a 8y ago

> without resorting to black marks on people's "permanent record" I think the whole point of this system is to "encourage" good behavior and to punish "bad" behavior, while the definition of bad can be a very broad one, so people start to change behavior. I'm not even sure if I would count this to a parallel judicial system or just "controlling the masses".

leereeves 8y ago
China doesn't have an independent judicial system. Chinese courts are just another means for the CCP to control the masses.